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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:24 pm 
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rover49 wrote:OK, he never used 'apples and pairs' or 'cor blimey Guv' but he sounded like most the teenage kids you here from the capital, white or black.



But I don't sound like either. Nor do the vast majority of Londoners I know.

Typical northerners. Painting everyone with the same brush (I'm being ironic, before people get the hump)

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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Mintball wrote:If that's what you meant – fine. Perhaps you should learn to write what you mean. And it should be 'haven't there'. If you're going to try to patronise, it helps to at least look basically literate.

Anyway, I await your evidence for this apparent rise in such attacks.

For clarity, in case you're struggling, I have not doubt there have been attacks and would not suggest otherwise. But some sort of massive surge? And from just one set of reactionary thugs?

Doubtless you won't read of such attacks as this in your Antipodean stronghold.

I wonder whether we should describe it as a 'terrorist' attack?



Hello you. Long time no.

Do you know what, I would indeed struggle to compile a chronological list of attacks that I'm referring to as they have popped up on social media as well as mainstream journalism over the last few years. Lots are from people on facebook back home pointing out events, locally or nationally. Most of the local stuff doesn't even make the local rag. So, actually. No. I can't show you "a rise" in attacks. Also I didn't use use the sensationalist term "Massive surge". Nor did I actually say "attacks like this". So in one small para, you've misquoted or made stuff up to aid your argument. You journos can't help yourself can you? :D

I know that you don't dispute that there are attacks. Who would? They happen. Possibly far more often than people realise.

Things in the UK have to be addressed and people need to start talking.

Apologies if I came across patronising mintball, I was actually being polite. And apologies for typing in something quickly without thinking. You can't help yourself to feel superior can you? To belittle others. This does present you, who is obviously bright, as arrogant on occasion. There's really no need to be like that minty.

I personally, don't see this as a terrorist attack. It's appears to a hate crime, born from religion.
Mintball wrote:If that's what you meant – fine. Perhaps you should learn to write what you mean. And it should be 'haven't there'. If you're going to try to patronise, it helps to at least look basically literate.

Anyway, I await your evidence for this apparent rise in such attacks.

For clarity, in case you're struggling, I have not doubt there have been attacks and would not suggest otherwise. But some sort of massive surge? And from just one set of reactionary thugs?

Doubtless you won't read of such attacks as this in your Antipodean stronghold.

I wonder whether we should describe it as a 'terrorist' attack?



Hello you. Long time no.

Do you know what, I would indeed struggle to compile a chronological list of attacks that I'm referring to as they have popped up on social media as well as mainstream journalism over the last few years. Lots are from people on facebook back home pointing out events, locally or nationally. Most of the local stuff doesn't even make the local rag. So, actually. No. I can't show you "a rise" in attacks. Also I didn't use use the sensationalist term "Massive surge". Nor did I actually say "attacks like this". So in one small para, you've misquoted or made stuff up to aid your argument. You journos can't help yourself can you? :D

I know that you don't dispute that there are attacks. Who would? They happen. Possibly far more often than people realise.

Things in the UK have to be addressed and people need to start talking.

Apologies if I came across patronising mintball, I was actually being polite. And apologies for typing in something quickly without thinking. You can't help yourself to feel superior can you? To belittle others. This does present you, who is obviously bright, as arrogant on occasion. There's really no need to be like that minty.

I personally, don't see this as a terrorist attack. It's appears to a hate crime, born from religion.

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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:56 am 
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Rooster Booster wrote:Hello you. Long time no.

Do you know what, I would indeed struggle to compile a chronological list of attacks that I'm referring to as they have popped up on social media as well as mainstream journalism over the last few years. Lots are from people on facebook back home pointing out events, locally or nationally. Most of the local stuff doesn't even make the local rag. So, actually. No. I can't show you "a rise" in attacks. Also I didn't use use the sensationalist term "Massive surge". Nor did I actually say "attacks like this". So in one small para, you've misquoted or made stuff up to aid your argument. You journos can't help yourself can you? :D


So first of all, you didn't choose to state, without any evidence whatsoever, on a thread about a specific type of particularly brutal murder, that such violence was rising.

Indeed, you responded to Dave O saying it was probably two random nutters by saying:

Rooster Booster wrote:You could well be right, but from 12,000 miles away I appear to see this happening more and more in the UK. I hear stories from people back in London from time to time as well as seeing the odd article in the national and local press. And I suspect there is a much larger growing frustration amongst people back home who aren't as liberal or were more liberal and are getting fed up with this. This could be why people like the EDL will get bigger and bigger until things are addressed and not ignored.


(Original post here, with the post you were responding to directly above it)

So either you're posting about something different, having forgotten the context, or you're not.

Now you claiming that you didn't post what you quite clearly did.

And you're also claiming that this rise in violent jihadist/Islamic attacks (unless you're talking about something else, in which case you need to make that clear) has barely been reported by a media, much of which would just love to report such things. This claim that 'things' (what things?) are being "ignored" is all smoke and mirrors.

Rooster Booster wrote:I know that you don't dispute that there are attacks. Who would? They happen. Possibly far more often than people realise...


Yes: we get it. You're intent on this "more often than people realise". Nod, nod, wink wink, eh? Then produce some evidence instead of trying to pretend that your speculation and hints and suggestions are the same thing. We hardly have a mainstream media in the UK that is dominated by those who would hide such attacks, so it should be easy enough to find.

Rooster Booster wrote:Things in the UK have to be addressed and people need to start talking...


Well, indeed. But it's hardly helped by someone asserting that, in effect, they've heard on the gravevine some rumours about an increase in such attacks – yet cannot produce a shred of evidence to back up that claim.

And I don't disagree that 'something should be done' – I think that such things, that are on record, as high unemployment, particularly among young people, do not help. But I suspect that wasn't the sort of thing that you were meaning.

Rooster Booster wrote:Apologies if I came across patronising mintball, I was actually being polite. And apologies for typing in something quickly without thinking. You can't help yourself to feel superior can you? To belittle others. This does present you, who is obviously bright, as arrogant on occasion. There's really no need to be like that minty.


Irony alert.
Rooster Booster wrote:Hello you. Long time no.

Do you know what, I would indeed struggle to compile a chronological list of attacks that I'm referring to as they have popped up on social media as well as mainstream journalism over the last few years. Lots are from people on facebook back home pointing out events, locally or nationally. Most of the local stuff doesn't even make the local rag. So, actually. No. I can't show you "a rise" in attacks. Also I didn't use use the sensationalist term "Massive surge". Nor did I actually say "attacks like this". So in one small para, you've misquoted or made stuff up to aid your argument. You journos can't help yourself can you? :D


So first of all, you didn't choose to state, without any evidence whatsoever, on a thread about a specific type of particularly brutal murder, that such violence was rising.

Indeed, you responded to Dave O saying it was probably two random nutters by saying:

Rooster Booster wrote:You could well be right, but from 12,000 miles away I appear to see this happening more and more in the UK. I hear stories from people back in London from time to time as well as seeing the odd article in the national and local press. And I suspect there is a much larger growing frustration amongst people back home who aren't as liberal or were more liberal and are getting fed up with this. This could be why people like the EDL will get bigger and bigger until things are addressed and not ignored.


(Original post here, with the post you were responding to directly above it)

So either you're posting about something different, having forgotten the context, or you're not.

Now you claiming that you didn't post what you quite clearly did.

And you're also claiming that this rise in violent jihadist/Islamic attacks (unless you're talking about something else, in which case you need to make that clear) has barely been reported by a media, much of which would just love to report such things. This claim that 'things' (what things?) are being "ignored" is all smoke and mirrors.

Rooster Booster wrote:I know that you don't dispute that there are attacks. Who would? They happen. Possibly far more often than people realise...


Yes: we get it. You're intent on this "more often than people realise". Nod, nod, wink wink, eh? Then produce some evidence instead of trying to pretend that your speculation and hints and suggestions are the same thing. We hardly have a mainstream media in the UK that is dominated by those who would hide such attacks, so it should be easy enough to find.

Rooster Booster wrote:Things in the UK have to be addressed and people need to start talking...


Well, indeed. But it's hardly helped by someone asserting that, in effect, they've heard on the gravevine some rumours about an increase in such attacks – yet cannot produce a shred of evidence to back up that claim.

And I don't disagree that 'something should be done' – I think that such things, that are on record, as high unemployment, particularly among young people, do not help. But I suspect that wasn't the sort of thing that you were meaning.

Rooster Booster wrote:Apologies if I came across patronising mintball, I was actually being polite. And apologies for typing in something quickly without thinking. You can't help yourself to feel superior can you? To belittle others. This does present you, who is obviously bright, as arrogant on occasion. There's really no need to be like that minty.


Irony alert.






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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:08 am 
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I read a post somewhere yesterday which said that since 9/11 there have been c. 21,000 terrorist incidents worldwide (personally, I have no idea whether that figure is correct) in the name of Islam. As the poster wrote, that being the case why do people trot out the argument "it's nothing to do with Islam?"

Anyone know wether that figure is valid and where it comes from?

If it is in the correct ballpark can we really buy this "small minority", "nothing to do with us guv" stuff from the establisment and "Muslim spokespersons"?

Could the reality be, as I have always thought and I think GWB 'got', this is in effect an all out war against our culture that will only be "won" by crushing the oppositon and reducing the Islamic sphere of influence geographically speaking or else, and more liklely with present attitudes, be "won" by "Islam"?

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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:23 am 
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cod'ead wrote:If you didn't listen to Radio 4's PM programme today, it really is worth a lsiten on iPlayer. Especially the bit where Eddie Mair trots off to Woolwich and interviews some of the locals, one young lad in particular:

"Our grandfathers fouht for our freedom in the war, if they were alive today they'd be spinning in their graves"

Listened to that on the way home last night. Hilarious and depressing at the same time.






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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:39 am 
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Rooster Booster wrote:But I don't sound like either. Nor do the vast majority of Londoners I know.

Typical northerners. Painting everyone with the same brush (I'm being ironic, before people get the hump)


I never get the hump over stuff on here, if we had to get upset with every ill informed idiot like me, then we would hardly have any posts :wink:

Anyway, I can't waste time chatting to you, the Whippet needs a walk and the I have to get the tin bath out for the coal man.






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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:41 am 
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Kosh wrote:Listened to that on the way home last night. Hilarious and depressing at the same time.


Might be a BBC policy, when Look North interview on the streets of Hull, they always seem to pick someone who has the thickest 'ull accent and cannot string a sentence together through their missing teeth. I am sure we are not all like that here.






'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'

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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:52 am 
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Dally wrote:I read a post somewhere yesterday which said that since 9/11 there have been c. 21,000 terrorist incidents worldwide (personally, I have no idea whether that figure is correct) in the name of Islam. As the poster wrote, that being the case why do people trot out the argument "it's nothing to do with Islam?"



Because time and again, numerous Muslim clerics take time to point out that their religion does not tell them to go out and kill everyone who does not follow their religion in the same way that the IRA followed no such teachings in the Christian bible and in the same way that most Catholic Priests condemned those terrorist attacks.

Of course there is always a minority who do take extreme views and there are some clergy who also take those views and encourage them (even covertly), and I include Catholic/IRA links and for that matter Protestant/militant Loyalist links, none of which mean that the flavour of religion mentioned will actively support terrorism.

Of course Muslims would like the whole world to follow their religion, so would Catholics, so would any religion, its part of the dogma of a religion to believe that theirs is the only way forward and most of them have an ongoing mission to convert as many as they can, this still doesn't equate to terrorism though.

Making an automatic link from "Islam" to "Terrorist" is probably the biggest danger we face and our own media don't help the situation very much either.






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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:33 am 
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Mintball wrote:Irony alert.


You don't like a metaphorical mirror being held up to you mintball. How come? Don't like what you see?

You still don't see bullying on here no doubt either.

Out of interest, do religious extremists hit the spot for you with your own dealings and feelings to religion?

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 Post subject: Re: Woolwich incident
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:41 am 
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Dally wrote:...I this is in effect an all out war against our culture that will only be "won" by crushing the oppositon and reducing the Islamic sphere of influence geographically speaking or else, and more liklely with present attitudes, be "won" by "Islam"?

Who do you think you are ... Richard the feckin Lionheart?

I, for one, do not wish to be one of your cookie-cutter identikit Brits who all have the same state-and-church-issued set of "clearly defined" values (by which you presumably mean your values rather than those of anyone else).
In the UK, we have diversity of opinion, religion, skin pigmentation, taste, outlook, politics, ideology, etc etc.
It sounds like you want to roll it all back to some time gone by when everyone loved the monarch, went to church on Sunday and were definitely not brown, gay or (heaven forfend) not like you.

Well, I have to break it to you ... that time never existed and will never exist.
Not only that but it's not solely your country, it's mine too.
Even worse, I reckon you are in the minority ... so it looks like you'll have to deport yourself for being out of step with British values ... where do you have in mind?






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