FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun fight...



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun fight...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:59 am 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
The Leeds General Infirmary (LGI) was told to suspend its childrens congenital heart surgery department yesterday after an unannounced visit from a very high ranking NHS official and the presentation of some mortality data to the Care Quality Commission - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21972187


This would of course normally be a high profile story in its own right, but for what happened 24 hours earlier... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-21952379 when a Joint Committee of NHS Primary Care Trusts (JCPCT) (who last year made the decision to close the LGI congenital heart surgery department in favour of expanding the services in Newcastle) was told by a High Court judge that their decision and process was "unfair and legally flawed".


This in itself was also a high profile story in its own right and it kicked off one hell of a bunfight in the media with the chair of the JCPCT panel Sir Neil McKay coming in for a real old kicking in the local media and from our local Leeds MPs, particularly as the High Court judge found absolutely in the hospitals favour and called McKays hugely expensive review and decision making "ill judged and failed to make all relevant information available to the consultants", in other words she suggested that the evidence had been rigged in favour of a predetermined outcome, local MP Greg Mulholland went further in suggesting that important statistics which supported the LGI unit had been withheld from the review committee.

McKay has given interviews in local media in which he still remains convinced that he is right and points out that the judgement has changed nothing but that they'll have to re-review the whole process again, it seem that he is in no mind to admit that he was wrong and that this time he'll just jump through the hoops and make the same decision again - he's been heavily criticised by local MPs Greg Mulholland, Fabian Hamilton and Stuart Andrew.


Throughout the review and decision making process Stuart Andrew led a cross-party campaign to save the LGI unit and stated today that they asked the question to the review committee several times whether or not the unit was "safe" and that they were told on each occasion that yes it was and there were no concerns over its safety, he has asked for an urgent meeting to discover the source of the data which has led to the sudden closure of the unit and asked why this data was not made available at the initial review or at the High court hearing.

Greg Mulholland on local radio today went further and has called the committee biased and having a lack of objectivity, said that the review committee was scandalous and "should consider its position" and said that the timing of the NHS flying visit by Sir Bruce Keogh (Medical director of the NHS) was cynically made at a time when parliament was closed for Easter and thus preventing MP's from questioning him and his review committee, he pulled no punches in an interview just a few minutes ago and its obvious that all of the local MPs regardless of party are chomping at the bit to have a go at Sire Bruce and Sir Neil


So folks, thats how politics works - if you take a "Sir" to court and gain a judgement to have his very long and very expensive review and closure policy overturned and called illegal, if you embarrass him in the media to the extent where he looks a buffoon, then expect him to call in his mates and produce previously withheld data to justify a closure anyway.

This one will run and run, pull up a chair and fetch the popcorn...
The Leeds General Infirmary (LGI) was told to suspend its childrens congenital heart surgery department yesterday after an unannounced visit from a very high ranking NHS official and the presentation of some mortality data to the Care Quality Commission - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21972187


This would of course normally be a high profile story in its own right, but for what happened 24 hours earlier... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-21952379 when a Joint Committee of NHS Primary Care Trusts (JCPCT) (who last year made the decision to close the LGI congenital heart surgery department in favour of expanding the services in Newcastle) was told by a High Court judge that their decision and process was "unfair and legally flawed".


This in itself was also a high profile story in its own right and it kicked off one hell of a bunfight in the media with the chair of the JCPCT panel Sir Neil McKay coming in for a real old kicking in the local media and from our local Leeds MPs, particularly as the High Court judge found absolutely in the hospitals favour and called McKays hugely expensive review and decision making "ill judged and failed to make all relevant information available to the consultants", in other words she suggested that the evidence had been rigged in favour of a predetermined outcome, local MP Greg Mulholland went further in suggesting that important statistics which supported the LGI unit had been withheld from the review committee.

McKay has given interviews in local media in which he still remains convinced that he is right and points out that the judgement has changed nothing but that they'll have to re-review the whole process again, it seem that he is in no mind to admit that he was wrong and that this time he'll just jump through the hoops and make the same decision again - he's been heavily criticised by local MPs Greg Mulholland, Fabian Hamilton and Stuart Andrew.


Throughout the review and decision making process Stuart Andrew led a cross-party campaign to save the LGI unit and stated today that they asked the question to the review committee several times whether or not the unit was "safe" and that they were told on each occasion that yes it was and there were no concerns over its safety, he has asked for an urgent meeting to discover the source of the data which has led to the sudden closure of the unit and asked why this data was not made available at the initial review or at the High court hearing.

Greg Mulholland on local radio today went further and has called the committee biased and having a lack of objectivity, said that the review committee was scandalous and "should consider its position" and said that the timing of the NHS flying visit by Sir Bruce Keogh (Medical director of the NHS) was cynically made at a time when parliament was closed for Easter and thus preventing MP's from questioning him and his review committee, he pulled no punches in an interview just a few minutes ago and its obvious that all of the local MPs regardless of party are chomping at the bit to have a go at Sire Bruce and Sir Neil


So folks, thats how politics works - if you take a "Sir" to court and gain a judgement to have his very long and very expensive review and closure policy overturned and called illegal, if you embarrass him in the media to the extent where he looks a buffoon, then expect him to call in his mates and produce previously withheld data to justify a closure anyway.

This one will run and run, pull up a chair and fetch the popcorn...






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:03 am 
All Time Great
All Time Great
User avatar

Joined: May 10 2002
Posts: 47951
Location: Die Metropole
That's certainly what Dr Phil Hammond thinks has brought about this decision.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:45 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19 2003
Posts: 17898
Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
They could have timed it better to make it look less like someone was taking the ball home.

The whole thing stinks anyway.






2005 Challenge Cup

To reconcile respect with practicality, what is the optimum speed for a hearse?

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:18 am 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
Sir Bruce McKeogh has now been interviewed on local radio and stated that he had no choice but to order a suspension of duties after receiving data from "an agitated surgeon" on Wednesday night (after the court ruling), showing "clear blue sky between the mortality figures at Leeds and the other specialist units", he's asked for statisticians to gather and investigate more data.

Another report suggested that a statistical unit elsewhere in the country had gathered some data but had not published it as the gathering and analysis was experimental and not yet tested or approved, this could be the same data that the whistleblower is refering to.

Of course there is no indication of where the "agitated surgeon" is from but in other news it was known from the start that one of the consultants on the original JCPCT panel was a surgeon based at the Newcastle Freeman hospital which won the vote over Leeds as to which of the two would become the regional unit, no guesses as to which one he voted for.






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:34 am 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Aug 14 2005
Posts: 14302
Location: On the Death Star Awaiting Luke.
It stinks doesn't it.
I think coincidence can happen but this doesn't smell like coincidence to me.






If you only knew the POWER of the dark side.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:15 am 
International Board Member
International Board Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 03 2003
Posts: 28186
Location: A world of my own ...
And now it appears that the data on which Keogh's original decision was made is "fundamentally flawed" and is missing "hundreds of cases" according to the LGI's own data on death rates. With these cases included, the LGI compares favourably to other units in the country and is by no stretch of the imagination "unsafe".

The JCPCT has made its decision, and has made a complete hash of trying to fudge together some data to support it. In the process, Keogh has smeared the efficiency and technical competence of a unit full of hard working, dedicated medical and administrative staff by attempting to paint it as another Mid-Staffs in waiting.

And yet, after his SAS-style knifing in the back of the Leeds unit and its staff, he had the bare faced cheek to give an interview to the Guardian about how he's sick of people having a pop at the NHS ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/ ... pen-season ).

He's either incredibly poorly advised, or an idiot.
And now it appears that the data on which Keogh's original decision was made is "fundamentally flawed" and is missing "hundreds of cases" according to the LGI's own data on death rates. With these cases included, the LGI compares favourably to other units in the country and is by no stretch of the imagination "unsafe".

The JCPCT has made its decision, and has made a complete hash of trying to fudge together some data to support it. In the process, Keogh has smeared the efficiency and technical competence of a unit full of hard working, dedicated medical and administrative staff by attempting to paint it as another Mid-Staffs in waiting.

And yet, after his SAS-style knifing in the back of the Leeds unit and its staff, he had the bare faced cheek to give an interview to the Guardian about how he's sick of people having a pop at the NHS ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/ ... pen-season ).

He's either incredibly poorly advised, or an idiot.






"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin

//twitter.com/AndyGilder

//fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk

This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:34 am 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:27 pm 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21981778
As suspected the data given as evidence was incomplete, ignored lots of relevant data which didn't suit the agenda and was never intended for publication anyway, it being an experimental methodology that was neither approved nor regarded as anywhere near ready for public consumption - it was leaked by an anonymous "concerned" surgeon.

BBC Leeds now reporting that surgery at Leeds is to resume "with immediate effect" after a tremendous effort from the cross party committee of Leeds MPs of Stuart Andrew, Greg Mulholland and Fabian Hamilton each of whom were not best pleased to have been ignored by head of the NHS Bruce Keogh when he made his flying visit last Thursday to close the unit - his comments are awaited with anticipation.

Meanwhile its another victory for the internet and particularly Twitter which our MPs have been using to great effect all weekend drumming up public opinion,arranging petitions and digging for the evidence, one day all public figures will come to understand that you USED to be able to bluff and bluster your way through high office confident in the knowledge that you'd buried the evidence and no-one would dare to challenge you anyway, but these days the public always seem to be several steps ahead of you, and far better informed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21981778
As suspected the data given as evidence was incomplete, ignored lots of relevant data which didn't suit the agenda and was never intended for publication anyway, it being an experimental methodology that was neither approved nor regarded as anywhere near ready for public consumption - it was leaked by an anonymous "concerned" surgeon.

BBC Leeds now reporting that surgery at Leeds is to resume "with immediate effect" after a tremendous effort from the cross party committee of Leeds MPs of Stuart Andrew, Greg Mulholland and Fabian Hamilton each of whom were not best pleased to have been ignored by head of the NHS Bruce Keogh when he made his flying visit last Thursday to close the unit - his comments are awaited with anticipation.

Meanwhile its another victory for the internet and particularly Twitter which our MPs have been using to great effect all weekend drumming up public opinion,arranging petitions and digging for the evidence, one day all public figures will come to understand that you USED to be able to bluff and bluster your way through high office confident in the knowledge that you'd buried the evidence and no-one would dare to challenge you anyway, but these days the public always seem to be several steps ahead of you, and far better informed.






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:35 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19 2003
Posts: 17898
Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
Will Sir Bruce do the honourable thing and fall on his scalpel?

(Not a chance IMHO)






2005 Challenge Cup

To reconcile respect with practicality, what is the optimum speed for a hearse?

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: NHS Childrens Heart Surgery keep an eye on this bun figh
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:15 pm 
International Board Member
International Board Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 03 2003
Posts: 28186
Location: A world of my own ...
JerryChicken wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21981778
As suspected the data given as evidence was incomplete, ignored lots of relevant data which didn't suit the agenda and was never intended for publication anyway, it being an experimental methodology that was neither approved nor regarded as anywhere near ready for public consumption - it was leaked by an anonymous "concerned" surgeon.


Would this be the same "concerned" surgeon from Newcastle Freeman who sat on the original JCPCT decision, despite the massive conflict of interest?
JerryChicken wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21981778
As suspected the data given as evidence was incomplete, ignored lots of relevant data which didn't suit the agenda and was never intended for publication anyway, it being an experimental methodology that was neither approved nor regarded as anywhere near ready for public consumption - it was leaked by an anonymous "concerned" surgeon.


Would this be the same "concerned" surgeon from Newcastle Freeman who sat on the original JCPCT decision, despite the massive conflict of interest?






"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin

//twitter.com/AndyGilder

//fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk

This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next





It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 7:51 pm


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 137 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 7:51 pm
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Father Ted
550
50m
Film game
karetaker
5908
50m
Leeds away first up
PopTart
54
52m
Ground Improvements
PopTart
240
Recent
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
10
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2638
Recent
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63302
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40837
Recent
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Realistic targets for 2025
al283
152
1m
New signings
WelshGiant
13
1m
Leeds away first up
PopTart
54
2m
Rumours and signings v9
NSW
28912
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63302
2m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
10
2m
Planning for next season
Septimius Se
190
2m
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
3m
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
4m
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
7
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Smiffy27
20
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Trojan Horse
50
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Father Ted
550
50m
Film game
karetaker
5908
50m
Leeds away first up
PopTart
54
52m
Ground Improvements
PopTart
240
Recent
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
10
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2638
Recent
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63302
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40837
Recent
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Realistic targets for 2025
al283
152
1m
New signings
WelshGiant
13
1m
Leeds away first up
PopTart
54
2m
Rumours and signings v9
NSW
28912
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63302
2m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
10
2m
Planning for next season
Septimius Se
190
2m
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
3m
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
4m
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
7
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Smiffy27
20
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Trojan Horse
50
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.