Firstly, Iain this is why you parted from the group because people found it hard to work with you along with a few other reasons. I am not getting dragged into a verbal fight on here with you even though I admit I would enjoy it. Everything that I stated in my previous post is what I am lead to believe by others in the group, unfortunately as we found the support just wasn't there and it wasn't always the directors that were questioning our motives but a few on here as well which we found very dissapointing because all we were trying to do was to help, create more funds for the playing side and try to make it this local commuinty club that it once was which is something the current board keep shouting about but apart from the fantastic work that Your Sporting Chance does headed by Mary Calvert in the town there is nothing else going on or if there is I haven't heard anything about it. I agree with what dreamer said about what could have been with the right support and input from the club with regards to PIRAG, all you have to do is look at some of the other clubs websites and see what their supporters clubs do and raise for their clubs because it's fantastic. I think Leigh last year in Oct/Nov handed over for player recruitment about £30,000, ok they have been going a number of years but this is what can be achieved and this is how we see the likes of top championship players or super league boys coming to our club but then again as we were told the club could manage without a Squad Builder contributing to the team as they can afford the players them selves

Hand on heart I would love to roll my sleeves up and get stuck in with PIRAG and a supporters group but when you have individuals that have no respect or appreciation for what you are trying to do for them and the club and only see you as a threat or someone thats making up a master plan to take of the world then its impossible. unfortuantely and this is a fact our board just cant see the bigger picture only that they are taking us to super league

Iain as I have said I could reply to most of what you have stated or eluded to but it would end up in an argument and I honestly cant be bothered, I would just like to say as I have once told you before. Please do not talk down to me, talk to me like a child or use your silly text book words. You know I dont take lightly to that.

All the best

Could some body give me a hand,and pass me a ladder,I am going to have to climb of the fence that I have been sat on for the last 6 months,I will have to say I have enjoyed reading everyone's post in the recent tough times and I am pleased that people care so much about the Cougars and that good frank debate is alive and well on here no matter what your views are.
The reason for the post really is just to back up, "On The Terrace,s" post regarding what he had experienced at the club ,I had a real feeling of history repeating its self,for those who don't know me I was one of the founding members of KISA,and I am saddened to say "On The Terrace's" post had a familiar ring to it,I don't wish to discuss certain aspects on this forum of what happened back in 2002 ,but would gladly talk to anyone in person on what happened from KISA's and my point of view,(I do use my real name on here so I am not that hard to find on match days,in the bar or behind the sticks).
Saying Am not going to discuss on here KISA isn't strictly true,I will post an article from Feb 2002 which is from a local archive, its a story taken from a local district News paper,(thanks to a certain someone on here who passed me this a few years ago) I think it says a lot about peoples attitudes, and really looks like sadly nothing has changed at the Club. Any-time I get the urge to get involved down there I tend to read this(see below) and then think "maybe not",but hats off to all you guys who do volunteer your the true back bone of the club.

COUGARS;Bitter War Of Words
Open warfare has broken out between Cougar chairman Neil Spencer and KISA-Keighley Independent Supporters Association.
The independent supporters club was launched when the old club collapsed with huge debts,but relations have been 'frosty' since the new club Cougars 2001 was launched by Mr Spencer and fellow director Colin Farrar late last year.
Tension boiled over this week when Mr Spencer declared "The time has come,for the sake of true Cougar supporters,to put the record straight. The so called KISA, do nothing at all to help the Keighley Cougars financially or otherwise,on the contrary they are a hindrance.They are the greatest wingers about anything and everything"
He also threatened to take legal action against the group for selling merchandise in competition to the club.
He added;"They are setting up a lottery in competition to our own,not only that they are pinching the clubs existing agents and members.What kind of co-operation is that"
Mr Spencer said true supporters should ask where their money was going,and join the official Supporters Club.
His statement ended"If you are a true KISA member go away and annoy someone else,you are certainly not wanted here"
But KISA chairman Martin Whiteley hit back with claims, that the cub had said it did not want there help"Almost every club in rugby league has an independent supporters club and many provide very valuable support.We wanted something totally different to help the club,and the whole of rugby league in Keighley.
"We applied for a small lotteries licence to run fund raising events,but the application was rejected because Mr Spencer said they didn't want our money.We have already sponsored a player and bought junior season tickets to give away as prizes,so some money has already gone to the club."
"We have over 100 members,about 10 percent of the home crowd, and most supporters who travel to away matches are members of KISA,we want to work for the good of rugby league in the town and we should all be pulling in the same direction."
He added; "I am prepared to meet Mr Spencer and the Official Supporters Club to try and clear the air"
February 15th 2002

Just a foot note on the above,we did meet various people from the club on several occasions and tried to find the middle ground but the door was firmly shut on KISA,hence many of the members did take Mr Spencer up on his offer and basically went away,some I know to this day have not set foot in Cougar Park since those days,and it wasn't just single members they lost,it was also family and friends that no longer came to the ground.I personally did stick around with a few other's that I know who post on here,the reason being I love the game,I love the Cougars but most of all love the crack and the people I stand with,a few beers good company and Rugby League what better way to spend a Sunday afternoon.
Just a bit of advice to the PIRAG guys, KISA was well run well supported and had some cracking money making ideas,but most of all we were all friends and had the same goal,yes there were arguments but on the whole we were a united bunch,and showed a united front,and we were stronger for it,but even with all that behind us we still fell well short of our goals,and in the end it still ended in tears.
My advice I am afraid is unless your bullet proof thick skinned, don't mind upsetting half the people down there and missing the game because your to busy behind the scenes, then just pay your gate money,maybe even buy a season ticket,have a few beers,treat yourself to a snack or food,even buy a club shirt or some merchandise(if you can find any,sorry couldn't help myself), don't forget the half time draw,even bring a friend that hasn't been before or for a while,if I have missed anything apologies,but you get the drift, and of course don't forget there is a game on,after all it is the whole point,so just enjoy to me what is the best dam game in the world "RUGBY LEAGUE".
Hang on someone pass me my ladder I am getting back on my fence,although I have just read that back and I am not sure I even got of it,must be going soft in my old age.

Can I suggest this thread is locked to avoid this getting out of hand?

One of many definitions of the word Forum "a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest" sort of thought that what was going on here.

In fairness Shaun I think it's gone a bit beyond that don't you think?

Sorry you maybe right,but its a bit like a traffic accident when you drive past,you no its wrong but you do tend to slow down for a better look,on the plus side I am now a little clearer on the problems that PIRAG have, and who is who!

Why?

This is a fans forum, not an appreciation society

Sometimes things need answering in public to prevent the chinese whispers syndrome.

As long as no one breaks the AUP what's the problem.

If someone has something personal to say they can use the PM (private message) system.

Fair point, but I found it uncomfortable reading and you could see a clear escalation in the posts and wondered what may come next. If some people wanted those questions answering I'm sure they would have attended the meetings, which it's clear they didn't. PIRAG looks to me to be going nowhere fast so I'd argue that other settling some personal difference's and airing their dirty laundry, what is the purpose now of this continuing.

That's just my opinion and I'm happy to stand corrected. If people see the need to continue it and it stays within the AUP (I've got a funny feeling it won't if continued) then crack on!

If people dont stop looking for a chance to drag people into a slanging match. It will be locked.

Why dont you arrange a meeting. Then you can have a go at each other there instead of here.

Thanks for reading this post. Lets play nice.

Good post Shaun, a bit of deja vu, methinks.

A personality clash caused the problems last time and it looks like they have done the same again.

Just looking around RL at some of the people in charge of clubs shows that they have ego's the size of Blackpool Tower. The word INDEPENDENT scares the hell out of them. They are distrustful of those people and things they cannot control or things they perceive as a threat. On the flip side, it's no good setting up an independent committee that has characters that are the same.

To put things in perspective, I read the Leigh forum and it says the Leigh Supporters Trust has raised in excess of £350,000 for the club - not to be sneezed at.

Good leaders find ways of making things work, and that applies equally to those of clubs and independent groups. This can be quite difficult because the very reason some Independent groups are set up is precisely because they don't have faith in the clubs directors. This causes friction from the start.

If the club wants help from a bigger proportion of fans, then they need to open their eyes. Many people do not want to pump money into a bottomless bucket when they can't see exactly what it is going to be used for.

You might motivate people who don't normally contibute if they thought they were buying player "X". But tell them it's for a "radio mike" or "going toward the bills" then they might be less enthusiastic.

It's a crying shame that this club cannot work with an independent supporters group.

EDIT: This isn't me having a go at anyone, just reflecting on human nature.