Incorrect.

According to the gospels, it is 'harder for a rich man to ender the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle'.

That Jesus bloke - dead dodgy.

You must be a Christian. You are quoting the Bible out of context!

Here it is:

"All these [commandments] I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the rich to enter the kingdom of God."

etc, etc (Matthew 19: 16-30, if you want to check )

The Bible is a fascinating book, both as a literary work and as a rich source of nifty messages that can make a person think, when they are feeling in the mood to think.

So all the rich people go to hell then ?

Where does the church (of most denominations) stand on that sort of thing then, hording riches and all ?

Nope. The passage continues:

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "Humanly, this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Jesus should have been a politician. That's a great sidestep! The disciples then go on to state what heroes they have been, giving everything up and asking what's in it for them and Jesus basically says that everyone who thinks they've done enough to get to heaven could well end up being at the end of the queue and vice versa, because frankly it aint about what you've got or what you do, it's about who you put first in your list of priorities. All else will follow. Remember, Jesus was preaching God, not how to impress him or each other or be perfect, and that's the context of the whole Bible.


Denominations vastly differ. In the UK you could take the extreme of the Salvation Army which often does the work that nobody else wants to do and used to go into pubs to raise money to build shelters for homeless people, stuff like that. Then you would have another denomination, say the Anglicans (since that was my childhood upbringing) and they can all be sitting in their pews comparing each other's Sunday hats and doing sod all else (or conversely could be very active in local communities, given that the Anglican denomination is an umbrella organisation for many different expressions of Christianity).

I don't know as much about the roman catholic church as I do about the protestant denominations simply because of my background and so I don't want to comment on whether that church hoards money or not. The Vatican should not exist in my view though as I cannot understand how anyone of any faith or none can justify its existence when the money it creates and costs could be of such value to the poorer people in the world. But that is only my view.

I can't speak on what line denominations take on the hoarding of cash. Those churches I attended donkey's years ago rarely broached money as an issue. Culturally, money is a bit of a taboo subject in England. I think more people can talk openly about death than about money, which is so often seen as one's private business so butt out. That tended to leak into the church although as I say I can only speak based on my distant experience.

Not out of context at all, as you've very helpfully illustrated.

And yes, it is a book to make people think: such as how homosexuality is bad, but gang rape of children is not.



What we're back to here is a number of things: 1) that being a decent human being is less important in terms of Jesus/God than worshipping God. We see this in the commandments too. Which to most people would seem ethically perverse.

2) Since God created everything and knows everything (according to Judeo-Christian tradition), we're back to the point that there is no choice. So the rich man doesn't choose any path; it has already been ordained him by God at the moment of creation.

3) Ultimately, whether you get into heaven or not is down to whether God is having a good day or not when you die.

I wish we had a few more Hindus, Sikhs, Taoists and what have you on here, I'm getting a bit bored of Jesus and his sycophantic mates.

Sandra The Terrorist wrote:I wish we had a few more Hindus, Sikhs, Taoists and what have you on here, I'm getting a bit bored of Jesus and his sycophantic mates. I've just started reading this as an antidote to exactly what you mention.

Sandra The Terrorist wrote:I wish we had a few more Hindus, Sikhs, Taoists and what have you on here, I'm getting a bit bored of Jesus and his sycophantic mates. I've just started reading this as an antidote to exactly what you mention.

I'd be interested to know how you get on, I've nearly read that a couple of times but the feeling that "well, that's all going to be a bit negative" has put me off.

I'll let you know.

Mintball wrote:I've just started reading this as an antidote to exactly what you mention. I'd heard that she was a bit dodgy.

Mintball wrote:I've just started reading this as an antidote to exactly what you mention. I'd heard that she was a bit dodgy.