Ferocious Aardvark wrote: ... Somebody ought to do the maths - cut every gold-plated civil service pension like Bichard's by 50%, and let's see what that produces. THOSE are the sort of benefits that should be in the thieves' sights, but of course there is no fookin chance of that happening at all. If we are so badly off that we really do have to further financially rape some old guy who toiled in a mill or on a bin wagon or a bus for 45 years, and was so poorly paid that he never could save up any reserve let alone a private cosy pension, let's make him the final target - not the bloody first.
Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
DaveO wrote:... That is not the point though. Your stance is without the welfare state we wouldn't have anyone with such large families. This is absolute b@ll@ocks.
Indeed, it's been shown more than once and in more than one place that access to opportunities, education etc are factors that bring birth rates down.
One could argue that the welfare state was actually a factor that helped to reduce family sizes. Certainly, if we include the NHS within that, then free contraception has made a massive difference – combined with education and many more opportunities for women.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:... There are anecdotally now plenty of whole families generations of whom have, officially, never worked and all of whom exist as professional benefit claimants...
Just to point out, recent work by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation could find no evidence of this great claim by Cameron.
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:... There are anecdotally now plenty of whole families generations of whom have, officially, never worked and all of whom exist as professional benefit claimants...
Just to point out, recent work by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation could find no evidence of this great claim by Cameron.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
John_D wrote:Isn't the whole point of technological advancement to make sure we don't have to work (as much) anyway? Where's my robot butler, goddammit?
I'm sure that was what we told back in the 1970s, at any rate.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Standee wrote:The Rowntree Foundation are hardly unbiased Minty.
Hmmmmm, who to believe?
A tory spin-doctor turned prime minister or a charitable trust set up by a truly philanthropic Quaker.
I can see where someone would get confused
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Standee wrote:Have you ever worked directly with them. I have, agenda driven idealists.
I'd love to see any claims made by the JRF ranked alongside any from the incumbent government.
I already know whose would stand scrutiny best
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
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