FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin Marriage Equality Vote Today



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 564 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... 57  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:50 pm 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 16170
Location: Somewhere other than here
JerryChicken wrote:The problems start when those well-thought through arrived at with conscience decisions have a starting point rooted in religion for if any of the major religions are your base point in understanding issue sof equality that directly contravine the hard and fast rules of that religion then your starting point is flawed for you can never oppose those hard and fast rules without denying your religion.

You are making two erroneous assumptions here: firstly, that all religions are the same (which they are not) and secondly, that everyone thinks in a vacuum (which they do not).

Even those who are very devout in their religious practice are influenced by their national culture, their family culture and their individual experience which colours their judgments and interpretations of what their religion may be requiring. Personally I find the study of religious belief fascinating, and always have, because it is very subtle. The people who hold to beliefs may not be subtle, but the beliefs themselves are. Some are positively enigmatic.

You have your own value system; your neighbour will have theirs. You will believe your value system is right and you will teach your value system to your children. You are no different from religious people in that respect. Or indeed in other respects.






Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:11 pm 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
SaintsFan wrote:You are making two erroneous assumptions here: firstly, that all religions are the same (which they are not) and secondly, that everyone thinks in a vacuum (which they do not).

Even those who are very devout in their religious practice are influenced by their national culture, their family culture and their individual experience which colours their judgments and interpretations of what their religion may be requiring. Personally I find the study of religious belief fascinating, and always have, because it is very subtle. The people who hold to beliefs may not be subtle, but the beliefs themselves are. Some are positively enigmatic.

You have your own value system; your neighbour will have theirs. You will believe your value system is right and you will teach your value system to your children. You are no different from religious people in that respect. Or indeed in other respects.


But to go back to my point, when your well thought out discussion point has as its starting point a belief system that has told you that homosexual marriage is impossible within the confines of your religion, then you are going to find it very difficult to reconcile that viewpoint even in your own mind let alone admit to anyone that you think your religion has got it wrong ("your religion" being in the thrid party and not literally "your" religion).

Your opinion, based on a conscience developed by years of indoctrination, is by definition already tainted by prejudice before you even start to reason.






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:21 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels

Joined: Apr 03 2003
Posts: 37503
I'd hate to think SaintsFan, or any of his homphobic religous ilk, were teaching any of my nieces or nephews.

another brain washed mentalist

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:03 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Feb 26 2002
Posts: 14522
Location: Online
SaintsFan wrote:...But from what you have said so far you sound like you embrace homosexuality and gay marriage.

Neither of those things hurt me or you or anyone, hence "I'm fine with it".

Not only that, but we must remember that gay, bi, lesbian and trasgender people are PEOPLE, valuable human beings like the rest of us, with the same range of emotions, strengths, weaknesses, conversation and contribution to humanity as the rest of humankind.
I have no right to tell them what they should and should not do with their genitals, any more than I have the right to tell you.
I also have no right to tell them they are not allowed to love each other, or get married.

Hence, I welcome the moves towards same-sex marriage and will be pleased to see people being allowed to marry the one they love, just like I did.






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:10 am 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Oct 21 2006
Posts: 10852
SaintsFan wrote:
Mintball wrote:Look, you're a teacher, IIRC. Do you believe that, in education, children should be taught facts?

Yes, but not only facts. Actually, it is very difficult to teach only facts, even in science, which most people assume to be very fact based. There is so much theory also.


You mean like the theory of gravity, or the theory of evolution?






Christianity: because you're so awful you made God kill himself.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:16 am 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Oct 21 2006
Posts: 10852
SaintsFan wrote:Not at all. Decent people can usually determine the difference between a view that has been thought through and arrived at with conscience, and bigotry. The two are different and both can apply to any subject, not just being gay.

!


If you 'think through' homosexuality and/or equal marriage and decide that either or both are wrong (or should be treated in any way differently to heterosexuality), then you have not arrived at your conclusion 'with conscience', but with bigotry.






Christianity: because you're so awful you made God kill himself.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:26 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Feb 26 2002
Posts: 14522
Location: Online
SaintsFan wrote: You have your own value system; your neighbour will have theirs. You will believe your value system is right and you will teach your value system to your children. You are no different from religious people in that respect. Or indeed in other respects.

The values you live by might actually be similar to mine but, nonetheless, we differ in that my value system is not based on myth.






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:32 pm 
Club Owner
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Apr 06 2004
Posts: 4420
Location: The Pavilion, Hilton St
Rock God X wrote:If you 'think through' homosexuality and/or equal marriage and decide that either or both are wrong (or should be treated in any way differently to heterosexuality), then you have not arrived at your conclusion 'with conscience', but with bigotry.



According to you.

Who made you the judge of who is bigoted and who isn't?






Challenge Cup
1923/24, 1928/29, 1947/48, 1950/51, 1957/58, 1958/59, 1964/65, 1984/85, 1987/88, 1988/89, 1989/90, 1990/91, 1991/92, 1992/93, 1993/94, 1994/95, 2002, 2011, 2013
World Club Challenge
1987/88, 1991/92, 1993/94
Championship/SL
1908/09, 1921/22, 1925/26, 1933/34, 1945/46, 1946/47, 1949/50, 1951/52, 1959/60, 1986/87, 1989/90, 1990/91, 1991/92, 1992/93, 1993/94, 1994/95, 1995, 1998, 2010, 2013
Charity Shield
1985/86, 1987/1988, 1991/92, 1995/96
Regal Trophy
1982/83, 1985/86, 1986/87, 1988/89, 1989/90, 1992/93, 1994/95, 1995/96
Lancashire Cup
1905/06, 1908/09, 1909/10, 1912/13, 1922/23, 1928/29, 1938/39, 1946/47, 1947/48, 1948/49, 1949/50, 1950/51, 1951/52, 1966/67, 1971/72, 1973/74, 1985/86, 1986/87, 1987/88, 1988/89, 1992/93
Lancashire League
1901/02, 1908/09, 1910/11, 1911/12, 1912/13, 1913/14, 1914/15, 1920/21, 1922/23, 1923/24, 1925/26, 1945/46, 1946/47, 1949/50, 1951/52, 1958/59, 1961/62, 1969/70
As Well as other comps that won't fit

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:10 pm 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 16170
Location: Somewhere other than here
Rock God X wrote:If you 'think through' homosexuality and/or equal marriage and decide that either or both are wrong (or should be treated in any way differently to heterosexuality), then you have not arrived at your conclusion 'with conscience', but with bigotry.

Really? Oh, I see. So, a person can think through something with conscience but if they happen to conclude differently from yourself then they are bigoted? And yet you say you are not bigoted? :lol: You aren't actually worth taking seriously.






Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Marriage Equality Vote Today
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:29 pm 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 16170
Location: Somewhere other than here
Rock God X wrote:You mean like the theory of gravity, or the theory of evolution?

I said theory, not theories. You'll have to do better than that.






Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 564 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... 57  Next





It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2024 7:24 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 235 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2024 7:24 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
38m
2025 Season tickets
Highlander
28
54m
2025 Kits
Dave K.
32
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
6s
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
561
26s
Mike Cooper podcast
karetaker
48
29s
Rumours and signings v9
Big Steve
28923
39s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
41s
Super League
FIL
33
53s
Leeds away first up
Trojan Horse
67
1m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
1m
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
225
1m
2025 Kits
Dave K.
32
1m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
TODAY
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
TODAY
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
TODAY
Fans Forum 12 Dec 11th
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Laurie Daley returns as NSW origin coach
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
BigTime
6
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
ColD
2
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
38m
2025 Season tickets
Highlander
28
54m
2025 Kits
Dave K.
32
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
6s
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
561
26s
Mike Cooper podcast
karetaker
48
29s
Rumours and signings v9
Big Steve
28923
39s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
41s
Super League
FIL
33
53s
Leeds away first up
Trojan Horse
67
1m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
1m
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
225
1m
2025 Kits
Dave K.
32
1m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
TODAY
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
TODAY
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
TODAY
Fans Forum 12 Dec 11th
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Laurie Daley returns as NSW origin coach
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
BigTime
6
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
ColD
2
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.