Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
El Barbudo wrote:I am not "tolerant" of homosexuality and I am not "tolerant" of the moves towards same-sex marriage.
"Tolerant" suggests that there is something to tolerate.
And isn't it interesting how such words are used in an absolutely mainstream manner, yet, as you rightly say, actually convey something quite specific that most people don't think of?
I'd say the same about the way 'admit' is used in much of the media: 'He admitted he was gay,' for instance. But to 'admit' something naturally suggests that one is guilty of something.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Standee wrote:I have paused to think, and you are quite right, it's not toleration, that was the wrong word.
I am seraching, and failing, to find an alternative.
Yes, even "accepting" or "acceptant" has a hint of reluctance about it. I'm going with the rather ugly "I'm fine with ..." until I come up with a better word or phrase.
Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.
Joined: Jul 22 2008 Posts: 16170 Location: Somewhere other than here
Standee wrote:no, decent people can see homophobic bigotry for what it is.
Not at all. Decent people can usually determine the difference between a view that has been thought through and arrived at with conscience, and bigotry. The two are different and both can apply to any subject, not just being gay.
Quote:I can tolerate anyone's views, so long as they aren't f'ng idiotic.
Proves my point really!
Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)
Joined: Jul 22 2008 Posts: 16170 Location: Somewhere other than here
El Barbudo wrote:Yes, even "accepting" or "acceptant" has a hint of reluctance about it. I'm going with the rather ugly "I'm fine with ..." until I come up with a better word or phrase.
Sometimes though acceptance can be an honest thing. Not everything is easily come by. Some things require an internal wrestle and they are not necessarily bad because of that. Just honest.
Acceptance is far more honest than tolerance anyway.
But from what you have said so far you sound like you embrace homosexuality and gay marriage.
Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)
SaintsFan wrote:Not at all. Decent people can usually determine the difference between a view that has been thought through and arrived at with conscience, and bigotry. The two are different and both can apply to any subject, not just being gay.
The problems start when those well-thought through arrived at with conscience decisions have a starting point rooted in religion for if any of the major religions are your base point in understanding issue sof equality that directly contravine the hard and fast rules of that religion then your starting point is flawed for you can never oppose those hard and fast rules without denying your religion.
If your religion has told you over and over again that being gay is an abomination and goes against the teachings of your God then you can never accept any reasonable argument that gay people can be married in your church.
It doesn't matter how well thought out and reasoned your argument is, if its base point is bigoted and prejudiced then so will your conclusion be.
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Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
SaintsFan wrote:Sometimes though acceptance can be an honest thing. Not everything is easily come by. Some things require an internal wrestle and they are not necessarily bad because of that. Just honest.
Acceptance is far more honest than tolerance anyway.
But from what you have said so far you sound like you embrace homosexuality and gay marriage.
Oh! You have no idea how much he embraces it!
Wink wink.
Look, you're a teacher, IIRC. Do you believe that, in education, children should be taught facts?
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: Jul 22 2008 Posts: 16170 Location: Somewhere other than here
Mintball wrote:Look, you're a teacher, IIRC. Do you believe that, in education, children should be taught facts?
Yes, but not only facts. Actually, it is very difficult to teach only facts, even in science, which most people assume to be very fact based. There is so much theory also. Just as there are values which every school promotes and which every teacher will teach in their classrooms, to one degree or another.
Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)
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