Does it? I don't think it does.

The account of the birth of the Messiah in Matthew is much shorter than Luke's. Even allowing for that, there is no logical reason to conclude that they lived in Bethlehem.



Matthew does not say that they were planning to return to Bethlehem though, does he? They returned to Israel, not an unusual thing for the Jewish Messiah to do......

Rock God X wrote:Really? Don't you think people would know not to kill other human beings without The Bible? And what if those looking for a bit of self help pick up The Bible and flick straight to Leviticus? 76 Things Banned By Leviticus Or Deuteronomy? Lovely. Obviously it's a load of horse muck

Rock God X wrote:Really? Don't you think people would know not to kill other human beings without The Bible? And what if those looking for a bit of self help pick up The Bible and flick straight to Leviticus? 76 Things Banned By Leviticus Or Deuteronomy? Lovely. Obviously it's a load of horse muck

Predestination does not excuse sin, mine or Paul Wood's.

Of course it does, you tool. Unless you totally ignore logic to suit your purpose.

Either we have free will, or we don't. If we don't have free will, we cannot be blamed for our sins. If we do have free will, we can choose to have faith in 'God' (or not). You can't have it both ways.

I've noticed that a lot of these religious folk seem to have one big thing to convince others they've met god, cancer.

And they've all been cured, with out real proof.

No. Man is totally depraved, cut off from God through our rebellion. We are so depraved that we cannot choose good, even when it is blatantly obvious we need a saviour. That is why God needs to choose those whom he will save.

That does not mean that we don't willingly sin. Of course we do. Before my conversion. I used to gamble and fornicate. These were my choices, my lifestyle. I am a fallen human and I wallowed in my sin because it was impossible for me to love the light.

This is, of course, a massive amount of cack. Most men are not 'totally depraved', and a young child who is born and dies never hearing of your 'God' cannot be 'totally depraved'. Yet you say your 'God' would send them to hell.

So, your 'God' creates a child who he knows will never even hear his name, who he knows will die in infancy of a disease he inflicted upon it, who will never have the chance to sin, and yet he commits that child's soul to hell to be tormented for eternity. Your 'God', if he existed, would be nothing more or less than the very definition of evil.



So we have free will to choose whether or not to sin, yet we cannot choose to love 'God'? Do you realise how ridiculous you're sounding?

Assuming you're correct for a moment (crazy, I know), what you're saying is that if someone exercises their free will to live a mostly good life, where they help others and don't knowingly cause harm to their fellow man, your 'God' would still send them to hell for not loving him, even though they had no choice about whether to love him or not. Your 'God', if he existed, would be nothing more or less than the very definition of evil.

If a child is unbaptised aren't they sent to "limbo"?

I can't imagine anything worse than spending eternity crawling backwards underneath bog doors

That's a matter of interpretation but I would say if you take a wife into your house and then she gives birth in a house in Bethlehem it's not a massive leap of logic to conclude that it's the same house in both instances. It would be bizarre in the extreme for Joseph to bring his already pregnant wife into his house in Nazareth and then take her to Bethlehem for no apparent reason.

Matthew says they were planning to return to Judea. Over versions say Bethlehem. Bethlehem is in Judea. Logic again concludes they were intending to return to Bethlehem rather than another random Town in Judea. They were not intending to return to Nazareth though which is in Galilea (see I know where it is). They only traveled to Nazareth so Matthew could tie up the prophecy which stated the messiah would be a "Nazarene" (whether that means he was from Nazareth or a member of a specific Jewish sect is another argument entirely).

Again was Joseph from Nazareth surely they would have returned to his house there rather than a Town he had no connection with other than that was where his son was born.

This seems like a good thread in which to post this link: http://www.justgiving.com/yah4schools Quote:We would like to put a copy of The Young Atheist's Handbook (Reviews Here) in every secondary school library in England and Wales. I've paid enough for a couple of copies. If it stops even one kid growing up with views akin to Kirkstaller's it'll be money well spent.

This seems like a good thread in which to post this link: http://www.justgiving.com/yah4schools Quote:We would like to put a copy of The Young Atheist's Handbook (Reviews Here) in every secondary school library in England and Wales. I've paid enough for a couple of copies. If it stops even one kid growing up with views akin to Kirkstaller's it'll be money well spent.