Cronus wrote:You've mentioned this encounter several times. Please, elaborate. I'm interested as what form an encounter with Jesus takes. Was it a dream? An apparition?
The meeting I had with Jesus happened at home. It lasted about 10 minutes and was probably the most intense 10 minutes or my life. We talked about my life and trust.
Quote:You miss the point. Your chosen god is the Christian god.
No, my god is God.
Quote:That's down to nothing more than the circumstances of your birth and the path your life has taken.
That is the path God has selected for me.
Quote:Just as the paths of billions of others mean they follow other gods and faiths.
Yes, they have been duped by Satan into worshiping idols.
Quote:A Muslim child may follow a similar path in a different part of the world and be just as sure in their faith as you are yours.
They cannot be as sure because I have met the risen and living Lord Jesus Christ. They have fallen for Satan's lies.
Quote:How about a child born to a remote Amazonian tribe? Doomed to hell before they even draw breath? What sort of God are you worshipping here?
Millions of children in 'Christian countries' are also bereft of grace. God chooses who to show mercy to.
Quote:Hang on, you said god has already chosen who to save, regardless. But now faith gets you into heaven?
Yes, faith given to us by God.
Quote:Faith is something we choose to have, or to deny. It is an act of free will.
No,the scriptures are clear that we can only choose to have faith in Jesus if God wishes it so.
Quote:Therefore your free will, your choice to believe and have faith, is what gets you into heaven.
There is no choice. It is double predestination.
Quote:Oh right, so now God grants faith?
Yes.
Quote:That sounds a lot like supernatural brainwashing. As I said above, surely faith is something we choose to have or to deny. If not, your god is forcing your faith upon you. Not sure I like the sound of that.
You're entitled to your humanistic opinion but it is worthless. God is sovereign, not you.
Quote:So please tell me, if nothing we can do can earn us a place in heaven, what was the point of Jesus? What was that little saga all about? It all seems utterly pointless if the saved have already been chosen.
The sins of the elect still need to be paid for.
Quote:That scripture is also contradictory in places.
I disagree (cue link/copy&paste from some silly website)
Quote:You're saying that this collections of ancient myths and legends passed down over many centuries, and accounts of a man allegedly called Jesus selected by various religious figures over the Councils of Nicea and over the centuries, translated and mis-translated many hundreds of times is ALL the work of the Holy Spirit?
Yes, however there has been no mis-translation.
Quote:So which version of the bible is THE correct one? They all differ to varying degrees as proven by the other point you ignored, the work 'tekton', mistakenly translated as 'carpenter' for much of Western history.
I speak Greek (though not the original Koine language) and I think you're on very shaky ground there.
Quote:And why is it that millions have died over the petty details of the bible if god has guided what was included. If god and his holy spirit are key in putting the bible together, why didn't god ensure every translation of the bible was perfect and thus avoid those devastating disputes?
KJV, NIV, NLT, ESV - they all tell us the gospel.
Disputes mainly arise over interpretation of agreed scriptures.
Quote:And why didn't god simply destroy all the "false" gospels that have come to light? In fact perhaps the opposite is true: he ensured they survived to be discovered by future generations.
Satan has been allowed to deceive many.
Quote:The bible weaves the concept of free will throughout, from Genesis in fact. Adam and Eve were told not to do something and warned of the consequences of their actions. Despite this, they exercised free will and went against god's wishes. Free will, in the bible, from the off.
Where in Genesis does it say Adam and Eve had free will???
Quote:The bible has many verses which strongly show that mankind has the responsibility to exercise his free will and is commanded by god to do so:
John 1:12
2 Peter 3:9
1 Timothy 2:4
Deuteronomy 30:11
Deuteronomy 30:15
John 14:15
John 15:7
Romans 2:10
1 Corinthians 9:24
1 Timothy 6:12
2 Timothy 2:21
1 John 5:1
Heaven knows where you have collected these from. You might want to revisit them individually and explain why they are not compatible with double predestination.
Quote:I have no doubt your god, in your interpretation, chooses who to save. What I question (aside from the whole concept of a god) is your assertion that he has predetermined his list of those to be saved, and that nothing anyone does can change that. Except have faith, of course, which, again according to your interpretation, is only given by god.
Romans 9:20-21
