Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12749 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
What treaty have the Sioux made with the white man that we have broken? Not one. What treaty have the white man ever made with us that they have kept? Not one. When I was a boy the Sioux owned the world; the sun rose and set on their land; they sent ten thousand men to battle. Where are the warriors today? Who slew them? Where are our lands? Who owns them?.....What law have I broken? Is it wrong for me to love my own? Is it wicked for me that my skin is red? Because I am a Sioux; because I was born where my father lived; because I would die for my people and my country?
"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."
"Women have the right to work whrever they want, as long as they have the dinner on the table when you get home."
And interestingly:
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."
"Women have the right to work whrever they want, as long as they have the dinner on the table when you get home."
And interestingly:
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
I have only been wrong once and thats because I thought I was wrong but I was wrong I was right!
Petty authoritarians aren’t man enough to challenge the actions of a person face to face; instead they incite a forum of rumour, innuendo and half truths, and impose rude sanctions to discourage those who dare question fairness.
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12749 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
Dreamer wrote:John Wayne quotes:
"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."
"Women have the right to work whrever they want, as long as they have the dinner on the table when you get home."
And interestingly:
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
And you thought he was acting when he made all them cowboy and injun movies?
Dreamer wrote:John Wayne quotes:
"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."
"Women have the right to work whrever they want, as long as they have the dinner on the table when you get home."
And interestingly:
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
WIZEB wrote:As long as that justified us killing tens of thousands of innocent children in Iraq.
It's all relative, isn't it?
I seriously doubt any allied commander said 'right lads, today we will seek out and blow up innocent children', unfortunately there will always be unintended casualties in war, the difference is that Saddam INTENTIONALLY gassed the Kurds. The two are not the same.
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12749 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
rover49 wrote:I seriously doubt any allied commander said 'right lads, today we will seek out and blow up innocent children', unfortunately there will always be unintended casualties in war, the difference is that Saddam INTENTIONALLY gassed the Kurds. The two are not the same.
You can try and justify it anyway you desire mate. The allies were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands depending on varying reports) of innocent women and children by the military action undertaken. If you want to appease that FACT then that's your perogative.
Joined: Jun 19 2002 Posts: 14970 Location: Campaigning for a deep attacking line
WIZEB wrote:You can try and justify it anyway you desire mate. The allies were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands depending on varying reports) of innocent women and children by the military action undertaken. If you want to appease that FACT then that's your perogative.
It still doesn't mean the two facts should be equated. 20,000 French civilians were killed during the D-Day campaign. It doesn't mean that that equates to the same evil as the Nazi's murdering 20,000 Jews in the city of Pinsk.
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
WIZEB wrote:You can try and justify it anyway you desire mate. The allies were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands depending on varying reports) of innocent women and children by the military action undertaken. If you want to appease that FACT then that's your perogative.
I wasn't trying to appease or justify, just pointing out the difference between collateral casualties and a direct attack aimed at killing a certain group of people. I am sure that the pilots who have dropped bombs will feel terrible about any innocent casualties, Saddam and his henchmen didn't give a damn.
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
Him wrote:It still doesn't mean the two facts should be equated. 20,000 French civilians were killed during the D-Day campaign. It doesn't mean that that equates to the same evil as the Nazi's murdering 20,000 Jews in the city of Pinsk.
To some, yes.
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 27757 Location: In rocket surgery
rover49 wrote:I wasn't trying to appease or justify, just pointing out the difference between collateral casualties and a direct attack aimed at killing a certain group of people. I am sure that the pilots who have dropped bombs will feel terrible about any innocent casualties, Saddam and his henchmen didn't give a damn.
How are those bomb pilots more innocent than Saddam's men? I'm not sure what the repercussions would be for men not following Saddam's instructions but I bet it was far worse than what US/UK soldiers would face if they refused orders. Given Iraq's consistent human rights violations over the decades I'm probably even underestimating that. I doubt US/UK bomber pilots operated under the same amount of fear and stress yet they are able to still justify this? Isn't that just as cold-blooded a killing?
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