FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin Today in history



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 142 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 15  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:49 am 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 18 2006
Posts: 18610
Location: Somewhere in Bonny Donny (Twinned with Krakatoa in 1883).
Live Wired wrote:And as for Pearl harbour, American intelligence (sic) was told 3 days beforehand by the Australians that a team of Japanese destroyers was on its way.

The American government let it happen, so it was seen to be a reasonable reason to join ww2. History books tell you this.

So you actually believe that the Americans would ignore the warnings and let their personnel be slaughtered as a reason to enter the war?
Interesting, or are you being obtuse?

They might of course have not believed the implications or the significance of the information. Is that not a possibility?
Some Japanese destroyers against the might of the Pacific Fleet.






War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Thank God I'm an atheist.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:24 pm 
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 05 2001
Posts: 25122
Location: Aleph Green
Live Wired wrote:And as for Pearl harbour, American intelligence (sic) was told 3 days beforehand by the Australians that a team of Japanese destroyers was on its way.


Ever since Japan's imperial ambitions in Manchuria had resulted in a blockade of fuel and metals the Americans knew some form of retaliation was likely. In the lead up to the attack there was plenty of intelligence. Indeed, the problem was that there was too much. US codebreakers had cracked the Japanese diplomatic traffic (but, crucially, NOT the naval codes) and an alert warning had been issued to all US Pacific outposts - including Pearl Harbour. Unfortunately, both the Navy and advisors in the government considered an attack on Pearl Harbour unlikely (given the enormous logistical problems the Japanese just barely managed to overcome). Worse still, the local commander thought so too, and tragically chose not to follow the explicit orders stating that every effort must be taken to defend the base from attack. He was court-martialed (along with several other senior naval commanders) for negligence soon after.

So, yes - the Americans knew an attack was likely. But no, they did not pull the trigger on their own people.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:50 pm 
All Time Great
All Time Great
User avatar

Joined: May 10 2002
Posts: 47951
Location: Die Metropole
Stand-Offish wrote:So you actually believe that the Americans would ignore the warnings and let their personnel be slaughtered as a reason to enter the war? ...


9/11 anyone?






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:13 pm 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 18 2006
Posts: 18610
Location: Somewhere in Bonny Donny (Twinned with Krakatoa in 1883).
Mugwump wrote:Ever since Japan's imperial ambitions in Manchuria had resulted in a blockade of fuel and metals the Americans knew some form of retaliation was likely. In the lead up to the attack there was plenty of intelligence. Indeed, the problem was that there was too much. US codebreakers had cracked the Japanese diplomatic traffic (but, crucially, NOT the naval codes) and an alert warning had been issued to all US Pacific outposts - including Pearl Harbour. Unfortunately, both the Navy and advisors in the government considered an attack on Pearl Harbour unlikely (given the enormous logistical problems the Japanese just barely managed to overcome). Worse still, the local commander thought so too, and tragically chose not to follow the explicit orders stating that every effort must be taken to defend the base from attack. He was court-martialed (along with several other senior naval commanders) for negligence soon after.

So, yes - the Americans knew an attack was likely. But no, they did not pull the trigger on their own people.

Correct!






War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Thank God I'm an atheist.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:15 pm 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 18 2006
Posts: 18610
Location: Somewhere in Bonny Donny (Twinned with Krakatoa in 1883).
Mintball wrote:9/11 anyone?

Human error is the common denominator, nothing more.
Hindsight of course helps the analysis.






War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Thank God I'm an atheist.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:48 pm 
All Time Great
All Time Great
User avatar

Joined: May 10 2002
Posts: 47951
Location: Die Metropole
Stand-Offish wrote:Human error is the common denominator, nothing more.
Hindsight of course helps the analysis.


Well the 'error' being in a) having intelligence that such an attack was being contemplated but doing nothing; b) cutting back on intelligence work related to al-Qaeda.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:56 pm 
Player Coach
Player Coach

Joined: Mar 05 2007
Posts: 13190
Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
Mintball wrote:Well the 'error' being in a) having intelligence that such an attack was being contemplated but doing nothing; b) cutting back on intelligence work related to al-Qaeda.


A flying school being told by a middle eastern man that he wasn't bothered about being able to 'land' was also a clue :lol:






'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'

Yves Le Prieur, the real inventor of the aqualung

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:15 pm 
All Time Great
All Time Great
User avatar

Joined: May 10 2002
Posts: 47951
Location: Die Metropole
rover49 wrote:A flying school being told by a middle eastern man that he wasn't bothered about being able to 'land' was also a clue :lol:


Not 'arf!

IIRC, that was reported to the authorities.

The conspiracy stuff is utterly ridiculous – not least because the mix of incompetence and stupidity alluded to above say it's not required.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:03 pm 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 18 2006
Posts: 18610
Location: Somewhere in Bonny Donny (Twinned with Krakatoa in 1883).
Mintball wrote:Not 'arf!

IIRC, that was reported to the authorities.

The conspiracy stuff is utterly ridiculous – not least because the mix of incompetence and stupidity alluded to above say it's not required.

Indeed.






War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Thank God I'm an atheist.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Today in history
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:56 pm 
International Chairman
International Board Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 27757
Location: In rocket surgery
The Yanks changed the protocol in June of that year, prior to 9/11, and in doing so made it so that rogue airplanes needed central authorisation before being shot down. In the official report they made a point of that saying that the previous protocol (to intercept the plane) would have led to attempt at bringing the planes down. I believe that both Rumsfield and Cheney (certainly the latter was anyway) were involved in changing that protocol.






An Ode to Sepp Blatter

Dadbod

Next In Line To The Throne

St Helens and a Fitting End to a Season of Unsung Heroes

Follow my wisdom on Twitter

Top 100 films of the 00s - The Top 5

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 142 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 15  Next





It is currently Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:37 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 131 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:37 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
15m
Ground Improvements
upthetrin92
250
27m
Salford
Chris McKean
65
38m
Planning for next season
LeythIg
191
39m
2025 COACH Brad Arthur
Ex-Swarcliff
258
42m
Transfer Talk V5
Exeter Rhino
555
48m
Mike Cooper podcast
Uncle Rico
24
52m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
233
59m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
10
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63304
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40839
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Exeter Rhino
555
2m
Recruitment rumours and links
Smiffy27
3555
3m
Planning for next season
LeythIg
191
3m
Salford
Chris McKean
65
4m
Leeds away first up
PopTart
54
5m
2025 Shirt
Zig
28
8m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
26
10m
New signings
WelshGiant
13
13m
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
30m
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
10
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Uncle Rico
24
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Trojan Horse
50
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
15m
Ground Improvements
upthetrin92
250
27m
Salford
Chris McKean
65
38m
Planning for next season
LeythIg
191
39m
2025 COACH Brad Arthur
Ex-Swarcliff
258
42m
Transfer Talk V5
Exeter Rhino
555
48m
Mike Cooper podcast
Uncle Rico
24
52m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
233
59m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
10
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63304
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40839
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Exeter Rhino
555
2m
Recruitment rumours and links
Smiffy27
3555
3m
Planning for next season
LeythIg
191
3m
Salford
Chris McKean
65
4m
Leeds away first up
PopTart
54
5m
2025 Shirt
Zig
28
8m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
26
10m
New signings
WelshGiant
13
13m
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
30m
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
10
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Uncle Rico
24
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Trojan Horse
50
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.