Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
I would add that there is an issue with child protection/social services, in that – for pretty obvious reasons – only cases where things go wrong are going to get reported. If those services save a child, you will not hear about it.
Now perhaps that's an issue with the publications or with the consumers of such media – I don't know which. But anyone who believes that what is reported is the whole story is either naive at best, or prepared to use the abuse of children to make political points.
And before anyone asks, I have personal experience of child protection services and found them to be exemplary. And yes – they succeeded in their remit. And the work that they do is deeply difficult – you couldn't pay me enough to do what they do, and put themselves through what they do. And the attitude of some of the mainstream media, over 30 or so years, has not helped. But then again, given that the Daily Mail, for instance, actually profits from promoting a Lolitaesque approach to sexualising underage girls (and the occasional boy), who could possibly be surprised?
So if someone starts telling you how moral the Mail is, you could perhaps point out to them that the Mail profits from sexualising children. Be gentle: obviously they won't know this, because otherwise they wouldn't be promoting the paper in question or linking to it or buying it.
I would add that there is an issue with child protection/social services, in that – for pretty obvious reasons – only cases where things go wrong are going to get reported. If those services save a child, you will not hear about it.
Now perhaps that's an issue with the publications or with the consumers of such media – I don't know which. But anyone who believes that what is reported is the whole story is either naive at best, or prepared to use the abuse of children to make political points.
And before anyone asks, I have personal experience of child protection services and found them to be exemplary. And yes – they succeeded in their remit. And the work that they do is deeply difficult – you couldn't pay me enough to do what they do, and put themselves through what they do. And the attitude of some of the mainstream media, over 30 or so years, has not helped. But then again, given that the Daily Mail, for instance, actually profits from promoting a Lolitaesque approach to sexualising underage girls (and the occasional boy), who could possibly be surprised?
So if someone starts telling you how moral the Mail is, you could perhaps point out to them that the Mail profits from sexualising children. Be gentle: obviously they won't know this, because otherwise they wouldn't be promoting the paper in question or linking to it or buying it.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: Dec 09 2003 Posts: 1429 Location: Kingston upon Hull(FC)
I have read some, if true, pretty strange stuff these last few weeks. High ranking MPs, PM's, The Aristocracy, The Police, TV stars and many others. All involved in alleged systematic child abuse rings and the even more scary one about secret services using blackmail and murdering witnesses. If these allegations are true does any body actually believe that this will be truly investigated? Also how does someone get away with blogs and websites naming these alleged abusers?
Whoever stands by a just cause and fights for the freedom and liberation of his land from the invaders, the settlers and the colonialists, cannot possibly be called terrorist."
— Yasser Arafat
Last edited by JACK DETH on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dally wrote: Why did Cameron say that trying to out the paedophiles was a witch-hunt especially against people who are gay? Is that because he thinks paedophilia and homesexuality are the same,.
Didn't seem like that to me. I think he was trying to make the point that people that spread rumours on the intent that certain people are paedophiles are more likely to that if those people are gay or rumoured to be gay.
It does seem that most of the Tories that are subject to the current internet allegations have also being subject to rumours in the past about their sexuality.
Maybe we should ban same sex boarding schools? One strongly suspects that the issue with these Establishment figures is that their first sexual experiences involved other boys / younger boys at their boarding schools. Read Stephen Fry's autobiography for an insight.
Dally wrote: Why did Cameron say that trying to out the paedophiles was a witch-hunt especially against people who are gay? Is that because he thinks paedophilia and homesexuality are the same, or does he know / have strong suspicions that the alleged perpetrators are 'also' gay, or what? Was it his way of deflecting the issue by pulling the bigotted homophobe card on Schofield?
No, he was hit with the equivalent of a baseball bat across the face live on daytime TV and he spoke off the cuff, unscripted and needing to fill a gap in the way that all politicians seem to think they have to.
I have a little sympathy for him but not too much, I'd prefer a politician to be honest and not speak from a prepared sheet of stock answers and if Schofields editing team (he didn't really find that list himself did he) had informed the PM's office of what was going to happen then they'd either have refused to answer or prepared a short speech - Camerons reaction was pretty good for a live response although my first reaction was that he'd put his foot in his mouth by linked homosexuality with a paedophile question, albeit accidently - however a half a gold star to him for giving an answer at all.
Quite honestly it would have been acceptable for him to tell Schofield to f*** off with his question (yes literally) being that he was there to speak about dementia and I would have given a full gold star for that.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Dally wrote:Maybe we should ban same sex boarding schools? One strongly suspects that the issue with these Establishment figures is that their first sexual experiences involved other boys / younger boys at their boarding schools. Read Stephen Fry's autobiography for an insight.
As Lord Grantham said in Downton Abbey just last Sunday, "Good god if I'd been given a shilling every time a boy tried to kiss me at Eton then I'd be a very wealthy man by now"
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
This is what is`wrong with our country. People thinking the PM should be given time to prepare a scripted response to every question. Surely our leaders should have their own convictions and have integrity and thus not be afraid to answer any candid question? Especially, when he himself has saw fit at every opporunity to make soundbite comments (a la Blair) that he thinks the public want to hear on Savile, etc. Schofield has just demonstated, in my opinion, the dichotomy between vacous comments for public consumption and an apparent lack of will to do anything about the matter.
Dally wrote:This is what is`wrong with our country. People thinking the PM should be given time to prepare a scripted response to every question. Surely our leaders should have their own convictions and have integrity and thus not be afraid to answer any candid question? Especially, when he himself has saw fit at every opporunity to make soundbite comments (a la Blair) that he thinks the public want to hear on Savile, etc. Schofield has just demonstated, in my opinion, the dichotomy between vacous comments for public consumption and an apparent lack of will to do anything about the matter.
Personally I'd love to see a much more open discussion on everything within politics, including profane language to make a point, would make PMQ's a lot more entertaining than the script led bawling that passes for debate these days, even the BBCs Question Time works to a script for which pre-prepared answers are handed out like crib notes that accompany a powerpoint presentation.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
Mintball wrote: In the North Wales situation, the victims who came forward and testified to the inquiry, have never had any form of justice. For whatever reason, no prosecutions followed and there was a bar on anyone named at the inquiry being named in public.
I am not sure this is quite right - just because you are not believed or you cannot provide evidence that is greater than your word against someone else's doesn't mean you haven't received justice. In many of the cases the alleged victims couldn't say when or where the abuse occured - if you were a defendant how do you deal with that?
We should be very careful when naming people without real evidence. Dave Jones the soccer manager is a classic example of high profile individual who will be forever blighted by a false accusation of this nature.
I have no idea and nor do any of us on here as to exactly what went on in Wrexham - if it can be proved correctly that abuse of minors did occur those responsible should have the full weight of the law thrown at them, regardless of their social status.
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Dally wrote:Maybe we should ban same sex boarding schools? One strongly suspects that the issue with these Establishment figures is that their first sexual experiences involved other boys / younger boys at their boarding schools. Read Stephen Fry's autobiography for an insight.
The nature of one's first sexual experience is not a synonym for abuse or becoming an abuser if it's a same-sex experience in a same-sex environment, any more than it is if it's a heterosexual experience in a non same-sex environment.
And let's remember: the abuse that has been alleged in recent weeks is not just abuse by adult males on juvenile males.
I would suggest that what might be more relevant is whether the situation where some children and adolescents are given (or take for themselves) the role of enforcing 'discipline' in some schools gives rise to bullying and abusive behaviour, which may (or may not) continue in adult life.
So for instance, Andrew Mitchell was apparently known as 'Thrasher' at Rugby because he was such a stern disciplinarian. Giving children or adolescents such authority/power seems a pretty much guaranteed way to cause problems.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
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