Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:02 am
GT
Club Owner
Joined: Jul 03 2003 Posts: 11532 Location: The Cloth Capped North
bramleyrhino wrote:Isn't "on-time" considered to be anything 9 minutes late or less? You can't measure improvement by constantly changing the definition of what you are measuring.
Could well be. I know there's a cut off time for when you can claim any refund, which is slightly more than that. As I found out when Southern Railways were late arriving from Brighton to London by less than said cut-off (with no announcements or apologies), which meant I missed my booked Virgin train to Preston. Virgin re-charged me the full £75 to get home and Southern's response to my complaint might as well have said "tough sh*t."
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:05 am
Richie
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17134 Location: Johannesberg, South Africa
dr_feelgood wrote:The state is already subsidising the rail companies to a bigger extent than it ever did when the system was nationalised.
Wrt the post on food being an essential service. Every state should ensure it has a policy to provide enough food for its population. You could argue that we already make sure people are fed by the provision of free school meals for kids and the welfare state providing benefits for adults so that they can purchase food.
We have the greatest food distribution and supply system.....entirely beyond the comprehension of previous populations. Have a think about worldwide cases where the state has tried to manage food production distribution and supply.
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:08 am
Richie
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17134 Location: Johannesberg, South Africa
DaveO wrote:No because it is not a service. Unlike things like the buses, railways or power generation.
Food distribution and supply isn't a service? Food is a product, distribution and supply are services.
DaveO wrote:It also isn't a monopoly enterprise requiring a regulator to ensure the public isn't ripped off. There is nothing wrong with private industry providing us with goods such as food where the market naturally provides for competition. Wherever you see a regulator involved you can guarantee the market doesn't actually exist to do this.
So you don't believe there is competition in the provision of transport service? For all journeys, there is only one single method of transport open to you?
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:52 am
Him
International Board Member
Joined: Jun 19 2002 Posts: 14970 Location: Campaigning for a deep attacking line
Richie wrote:Food distribution and supply isn't a service? Food is a product, distribution and supply are services.
So you don't believe there is competition in the provision of transport service? For all journeys, there is only one single method of transport open to you?
For many people either the bus or the train is the only option of getting to work. So regardless of quality of service or, to a large extent, price, many people have no option but to use that bus service or that train service. Unless there were 3/4 buses from competing companies waiting at the bus stop then the passenger is forced into a monopoly system. There is an element of competition in that those companies have to win the franchise to provide that service, but that kind of situation is not where the private sector flourishes and I believe that the state/council/region could run these services just as well for a lower cost without the need for costly franchise applications, changeover of franchise costs, and no need for profits to be made or dividends to be paid.
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:35 am
Richie
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17134 Location: Johannesberg, South Africa
Him wrote:For many people either the bus or the train is the only option of getting to work. So regardless of quality of service or, to a large extent, price, many people have no option but to use that bus service or that train service. Unless there were 3/4 buses from competing companies waiting at the bus stop then the passenger is forced into a monopoly system. There is an element of competition in that those companies have to win the franchise to provide that service, but that kind of situation is not where the private sector flourishes and I believe that the state/council/region could run these services just as well for a lower cost without the need for costly franchise applications, changeover of franchise costs, and no need for profits to be made or dividends to be paid.
So we've already moved on from the trains being a monopoly, to train or bus now, therefore trains are no longer a monopoly. It's going to vary between networks, but even on the same line I have the choice between Virgin and London-Midland for a journey. That's before we have even thought about walking, cycling (own or Boris-bike style hire), taxis, coach services, trams, driving (own car, hire car) car-share schemes, flying. The railways are far from being a monopoly in the provision of transport.
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:08 am
Mintball
All Time Great
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Richie wrote:So we've already moved on from the trains being a monopoly, to train or bus now, therefore trains are no longer a monopoly. It's going to vary between networks, but even on the same line I have the choice between Virgin and London-Midland for a journey. That's before we have even thought about walking, cycling (own or Boris-bike style hire), taxis, coach services, trams, driving (own car, hire car) car-share schemes, flying. The railways are far from being a monopoly in the provision of transport.
Nice attempt to shift the goalposts.
Virgin (for instance) has a monopoly on the rail route from London to Manchester. No other companies run that route.
That is a monopoly.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:17 am
Richie
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17134 Location: Johannesberg, South Africa
Mintball wrote:Nice attempt to shift the goalposts.
Virgin (for instance) has a monopoly on the rail route from London to Manchester. No other companies run that route.
That is a monopoly.
You think Virgin have a monopoly on travel between London and Manchester? There no other ways to travel between London and Manchester, other than on a Virgin Train? erm......OK
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:20 am
Sal Paradise
International Chairman
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
Him wrote:For many people either the bus or the train is the only option of getting to work. So regardless of quality of service or, to a large extent, price, many people have no option but to use that bus service or that train service. Unless there were 3/4 buses from competing companies waiting at the bus stop then the passenger is forced into a monopoly system. There is an element of competition in that those companies have to win the franchise to provide that service, but that kind of situation is not where the private sector flourishes and I believe that the state/council/region could run these services just as well for a lower cost without the need for costly franchise applications, changeover of franchise costs, and no need for profits to be made or dividends to be paid.
Perhaps you could provide examples of where the state has run things more cost effectively and more efficiently than private enterprise?
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:23 am
Sal Paradise
International Chairman
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
Mintball wrote:Nice attempt to shift the goalposts.
Virgin (for instance) has a monopoly on the rail route from London to Manchester. No other companies run that route.
That is a monopoly.
Are you serious - I could get a train from London to Leeds and then a train from Leeds to Manchester - neither train is run by Virgin!!
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Post subject: Re: West Coast Mainline Deal Ditched
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:28 am
Richie
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17134 Location: Johannesberg, South Africa
Sal Paradise wrote:Are you serious - I could get a train from London to Leeds and then a train from Leeds to Manchester - neither train is run by Virgin!!
There you go Mintball. Another option on how to travel between Manchester and London. So even someone with a bizarre train fetish, who could only travel by train, and who could not possibly consider any methods of travel other than trains, still has an option other than Virgin. That's on top of all the other methods of travelling other than rail that anyone without a train fetish could use.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum