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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:12 pm 
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carl_spackler wrote:Err.......yes. Quite easily. Any normal person's response to not getting penalties when they are fouled would be to be more determined and work harder at staying on their feet.


It looked like he got tripped up by a blade of grass.






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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Dead Man Walking wrote:It looked like he got tripped up by a blade of grass.


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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:27 pm 
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McClennan wrote: trying to do an honest job.


Nonsense, they're bent and controlled by the Fergie Association..............

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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Dead Man Walking wrote:It looked like he got tripped up by a blade of grass.


Totally agree, and it makes no sense whatsoever for that to be the logical response to not being awarded fouls. The logical response is to stay on your feet at all times possible in order to maximise your chances of a crack at goal, otherwise you're just handing over possession.

Whilst on about Liverpool, where do people think they have to finish for Rodgers to have done a decent job/keep his job for another season?

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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:23 pm 
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McClennan wrote:RE: Suarez diving and the baggage that comes with it.

There's an age old story called Peter and the Wolf that Liverpool fans should read first before having a pop at refs. Refs do as good a job as can be expected and when you have charlatans trying to con them even further it's understandable if they find it hard to interpret theatrics correctly. The only way to address that issue is for the player themselves to take responsibility for their own actions. Blaming the ref for not seeing it is the bed you've made and one that you must lie in until others start to believe you. If a player continues to pepper genuine fouls against with what can only be described as cheating lies (looking to win a foul when one hasn't occurred is deliberately misleading and therefore a lie) resets any good work done. Suarez and players like him are to blame not the referees who, we should remember, are trying to do an honest job.


I agree with most of what you say.

But the problem is in the huge grey area over fouls. If a defender impedes an attacker just enough to cause his team mate to make a clearance that is still a foul. But good luck finding refs that are strong enough to make that decision. They need the player to go down to force them to actually make a decision.

An honest striker is one that defenders will love. They'll just hang all over him all game, knowing that as long as they don't actually cause him to go to ground they'll be able to foul all the time and get away with it. Just look at the ludicrous situation over free kicks into the penalty area. If an attacker looks at a defender the wrong way the refs will instantly give a free kick against him. At the same time if a defender picks up an attacker and carries him into the stand the referee will fail to see anything wrong.

Then there's the issue of players going into challenges as though they are going to clatter into someone and then pulling out at the last minute. That's a foul according to the rules.

Managers then cause more problems with their mind games. Pulis has been on a roll over diving and bad tackles against his side. Don't think he was too bothered by Crouch's hand ball before he scored against Citeh though, and he's quick to defend his players after they've hospitalised another player.

Then we've got the Shearer's, Lawrensen's and the Gray's who are the main voices on refereeing decisions. While they are all ex pro's, they don't really demonstrate that they have any extended knowledge because they've played the game. Have they gained at all from their years of "analysing" the game, or are they basically spouting the same drivel they talked when they first got their paying gig after stopping playing?

Suarez is an awful diver. He's got a rep for it, we've laughed at the videos. But the fact is that he is still the victim of many more fouls against him than he is of winning free kicks by diving. But somehow a defender deliberately fouling him doesn't get classed as ***CHEATING*** but him diving once after been kicked a few times is the worst kind of cheating imaginable.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:35 pm 
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getdownmonkeyman wrote:Can anyone explain why City put up with Balotelli? I really can't see the talent that overrides the petulance/trouble he causes. Mancini had no hesitancy on letting Adam Johnson go (a player I rate as the best English winger in the PL), for his lifestyle, so why the latitude to Balotelli?


I don't think City let Johnson go because of his lifestyle, that was an issue a couple of years ago but not recently. I think they just didn't believe he would make it at the very top and he was no longer willing to be a squad player. In cricket parlance Johnson is a flat track bully. He's great against poor full backs in poor teams, but rarely performs against the better full backs. He probably doesn't have enough pace to make it as an out and out winger. He has good touch, a decent pass and an excellent shot and I could see him developing in a more central role. But he's very unlikely to get the opportunities to make that transition at City. A move to a club like Sunderland was probably in his interests and City got a decent fee for him.

I often think that City have reached the end of the road with Balotelli, most recently when sent off at Arsenal. But then he'll put in the sort of performance he did against Germany and you have to think he's worth persevering with for just a bit longer. I think Mancini doesn't want to be the manager that let him go just before he sorted himself out and realised his potential.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:38 pm 
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carl_spackler wrote:Totally agree, and it makes no sense whatsoever for that to be the logical response to not being awarded fouls. The logical response is to stay on your feet at all times possible in order to maximise your chances of a crack at goal, otherwise you're just handing over possession.


Can't remember which game it was, but earlier this season Torres was through on goal, defender just behind him, but Torres was close enough to goal that he wasn't catching him.

The defender clearly tugged at Torres, causing him to lose balance. Torres, off balance, managed to get enough contact to beat the keeper, but not enough contact to score. The defender who had tugged him carried on his run and cleared the ball just before it crossed the line.

Great defending, said the commentators.

But the clearance was only possible because the defender fouled Torres in the first place. Without that illegal contact then Torres would have been free to finish easily (for this example, let's ignore the fact that Torres ATM is just as likely to have smashed it 20 foot wide as score). A top quality ref would have given the foul because Torres was clearly impeded illegally and the defender gained a clear advantage because of that. But I don't think any referee in the PL would give that in real time. I think at a referee's meeting watching the video, every single ref would agree that the defender should have been penalised for the foul.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Another point on Balotelli. Isn't there also the case that the media exaggerate any issue they can anyway? Balotelli was subbed, took exception to it, as many players do, and slunk off to get dressed. Hardly an open and shut case for getting rid. Fergie would have slapped him around the training ground for slighting him, he might have kicked a few boots at his head, but he wouldn't have been binning him for it if he was scoring enough goals to forgive him.

Citeh getting rid of Balotelli would delight Man United right now. Just as the rest of the PL would be peeing their pants with joy if Chelsea came to the lunatic decision of getting rid of Terry and Cole over the kangaroo court verdict.

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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:08 pm 
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McClennan wrote:There's an age old story called Peter and the Wolf that Liverpool fans should read first before having a pop at refs.

'The boy who cried wolf' probably more relevant ;)






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 Post subject: Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:Can't remember which game it was, but earlier this season Torres was through on goal, defender just behind him, but Torres was close enough to goal that he wasn't catching him.

The defender clearly tugged at Torres, causing him to lose balance. Torres, off balance, managed to get enough contact to beat the keeper, but not enough contact to score. The defender who had tugged him carried on his run and cleared the ball just before it crossed the line.

Great defending, said the commentators.

But the clearance was only possible because the defender fouled Torres in the first place. Without that illegal contact then Torres would have been free to finish easily (for this example, let's ignore the fact that Torres ATM is just as likely to have smashed it 20 foot wide as score). A top quality ref would have given the foul because Torres was clearly impeded illegally and the defender gained a clear advantage because of that. But I don't think any referee in the PL would give that in real time. I think at a referee's meeting watching the video, every single ref would agree that the defender should have been penalised for the foul.


I don't see how any of that is at all relevant to my post, did you quote the right one?

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