Post subject: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:32 pm
Damo-Leeds
Player Coach
Joined: Jul 22 2007 Posts: 11757 Location: Leeds
I thought I’d generate a debate..
Learn how to create a CV, be educated on how to conduct yourself in an interview, embrace the cult of positivism and you’re on the way to securing yourself a job. Unfortunately most of the education sector in Britain doesn’t teach the kids these vital skills and that’s why so many of them end up in the dole queue. The solution of course is to provide employability training in schools so that unemployment will be driven out of existence for good.
In all seriousness though, the education sector is been unfairly demonised by an industry looking for an easy scapegoat for its own failings. For example take a look at this guardian article where the deluded Tim Thomas claims that “young people coming out of schools are ill-prepared for the workplace”. The reality of course is that the economy is ill-prepared to equip young people with jobs when they come out of this countries education system.
Time and time again I read and listen to antidotes that employability needs to get into schools. This would be all fine and dandy for the employability brigade because it would mean more work for them but would it really improve things?
For me the schools, colleges and universities of this country are a lot more successful at equipping young people for the working world than these employability type companies. So why does the government keep insisting on funding the likes of A4e and other providers?
PS – I have a job and waiting for a start date so let’s not make this debate personal please!
I thought I’d generate a debate..
Learn how to create a CV, be educated on how to conduct yourself in an interview, embrace the cult of positivism and you’re on the way to securing yourself a job. Unfortunately most of the education sector in Britain doesn’t teach the kids these vital skills and that’s why so many of them end up in the dole queue. The solution of course is to provide employability training in schools so that unemployment will be driven out of existence for good.
In all seriousness though, the education sector is been unfairly demonised by an industry looking for an easy scapegoat for its own failings. For example take a look at this guardian article where the deluded Tim Thomas claims that “young people coming out of schools are ill-prepared for the workplace”. The reality of course is that the economy is ill-prepared to equip young people with jobs when they come out of this countries education system.
Time and time again I read and listen to antidotes that employability needs to get into schools. This would be all fine and dandy for the employability brigade because it would mean more work for them but would it really improve things?
For me the schools, colleges and universities of this country are a lot more successful at equipping young people for the working world than these employability type companies. So why does the government keep insisting on funding the likes of A4e and other providers?
PS – I have a job and waiting for a start date so let’s not make this debate personal please!
Post subject: Re: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:46 pm
Robbo
Club Owner
Joined: Oct 05 2003 Posts: 7195 Location: Wigan
I was taught how to write a CV in school and we also had practice interviews with real employers and given feedback to help better ourselves for the real thing. Don't really know what your trying to say. Does every school not do this?
I think the lack of jobs is the reason for long queue's at the dole office rather than the amount of people being unable to write a CV.
Post subject: Re: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:55 pm
Damo-Leeds
Player Coach
Joined: Jul 22 2007 Posts: 11757 Location: Leeds
Robbo wrote:I was taught how to write a CV in school and we also had practice interviews with real employers and given feedback to help better ourselves for the real thing. Don't really know what your trying to say. Does every school not do this?
I think the lack of jobs is the reason for long queue's at the dole office rather than the amount of people being unable to write a CV.
Likewise I was taught the basics in school which was enough. The CV that I did at school and later improved at college was only to be ‘dumbed down’ by a government employability provider. What I’m trying to say is that these government employability providers are scapegoating schools for their own failings to get people into work. This country would be better off without the likes of them.
I agree that lack of jobs is the reason for the long queues at the dole office. I’m sure we’ll get someone in the debate soon who doesn’t agree.
Post subject: Re: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:00 pm
JerryChicken
International Star
Joined: Jul 09 2012 Posts: 3605 Location: Leeds
When I left school (in 1974) I didn't know what a CV was, and neither did anyone else for that matter for the phrase had yet to be invented.
It sufficed for employers that they put a job advert in the local newspaper and it was assumed that those who applied were actually interested enough to hand write a letter, stick a stamp on it and walk to the post box - you didn't do that just to satisfy some form-filler down at the job centre, which wasn't called a job centre by the way, it was the labour exchange.
You also didn't have to reel off a long list of qualifications for as a school leaver it was generally accepted that your first employer would handle your training regime, indeed it was generally accepted that if you employed a 16 year old you were getting the raw material from which to mould someone who would become valuable to your organisation in three to four years time during which you'd be expected to train them yourself and to pay for their further education fees - for that commitment it was generally accepted by school leavers that they'd stay in the job until they were old enough to apply elsewhere with some worthwhile experience, didn't always work that way of course but generally thats what happened, you took a job, you stuck at it and neither you nor your employer expected you to be MD of the company anytime soon.
I can't help thinking that it was a better way to perform in that school leavers actually had a value to a company and that value was one that would be recouped several years down the line and to that end most company's would recruit school leavers on a regular basis to ensure a through put of trainees in the organisation.
And thats all without mentioning trade apprenticeships which had legally binding (often five year) indentures.
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Post subject: Re: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:18 pm
sally cinnamon
Club Coach
Joined: Oct 12 2004 Posts: 16274
Yes its down to a lack of demand in the economy that there are so many long queues at the dole office. Yes there is always a pool of people that have had a very poor education and seriously lack skills and so are unemployable, but the skills situation did not suddenly change in 2008, and the UK had relatively low unemployment from around 1996 to 2008 and now it has spiked up again, and if demand picked up it would probably drop back down to the levels it was before 2008.
Challenge Cup winners 2009 2010 2012 2019 League Leaders 2011 2016
Post subject: Re: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:33 pm
Wire Yed
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Mar 15 2009 Posts: 20628
Robbo wrote:I was taught how to write a CV in school and we also had practice interviews with real employers and given feedback to help better ourselves for the real thing.
Me too, i still remember one comment
Suit too big
I wore my dads suit because i didn't have one, even though we were the same height i was 11 stone and he was 17
Post subject: Re: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:44 am
Mintball
All Time Great
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
JerryChicken wrote:When I left school (in 1974) I didn't know what a CV was, and neither did anyone else for that matter for the phrase had yet to be invented.
It sufficed for employers that they put a job advert in the local newspaper and it was assumed that those who applied were actually interested enough to hand write a letter, stick a stamp on it and walk to the post box - you didn't do that just to satisfy some form-filler down at the job centre, which wasn't called a job centre by the way, it was the labour exchange.
You also didn't have to reel off a long list of qualifications for as a school leaver it was generally accepted that your first employer would handle your training regime, indeed it was generally accepted that if you employed a 16 year old you were getting the raw material from which to mould someone who would become valuable to your organisation in three to four years time during which you'd be expected to train them yourself and to pay for their further education fees - for that commitment it was generally accepted by school leavers that they'd stay in the job until they were old enough to apply elsewhere with some worthwhile experience, didn't always work that way of course but generally thats what happened, you took a job, you stuck at it and neither you nor your employer expected you to be MD of the company anytime soon.
I can't help thinking that it was a better way to perform in that school leavers actually had a value to a company and that value was one that would be recouped several years down the line and to that end most company's would recruit school leavers on a regular basis to ensure a through put of trainees in the organisation.
And thats all without mentioning trade apprenticeships which had legally binding (often five year) indentures.
I love it when you talk about the olden days, Mr Chicken.
But it's extraordinary, isn't it, how there has been an increasing expectation that education would deliver young people ready-trained into the workplace, instead of employers taking responsibility for the appropriate on-the-job training.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Post subject: Re: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:48 am
chico's nose
Club Coach
Joined: Oct 20 2004 Posts: 1599
Mintball wrote:I love it when you talk about the olden days, Mr Chicken.
But it's extraordinary, isn't it, how there has been an increasing expectation that education would deliver young people ready-trained into the workplace, instead of employers taking responsibility for the appropriate on-the-job training.
Let's not forget the role that parents should play in ensuring that their children are ready for the big bad world once they leave school.
I work at an FE college in Hull and deal specifically with 14-16 students. By the time they have completed their 2 years study with us, alongside their normal schooling, the vast majority are ready for the workplace and progress into apprenticeships. The ones who tend to struggle are the students who have been molly coddled by their parents who are picked up and dropped off at college and workplacements and never have to do anything for themselves.
Is it true that Richard Agar's favorite movie of all time is Groundhog Day or does he just generally like the same boring s**t day after day, season after season?
Post subject: Re: Employability Training in this country pointless?
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:53 pm
Mintball
All Time Great
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
chico's nose wrote:Let's not forget the role that parents should play in ensuring that their children are ready for the big bad world once they leave school.
I work at an FE college in Hull and deal specifically with 14-16 students. By the time they have completed their 2 years study with us, alongside their normal schooling, the vast majority are ready for the workplace and progress into apprenticeships. The ones who tend to struggle are the students who have been molly coddled by their parents who are picked up and dropped off at college and workplacements and never have to do anything for themselves.
That's another thing: we didn't have work placements in my day, any more than we had school 'proms'.
Manchester College does some very good stuff with young people in terms of training (went around several of the sites last year when doing some research). They've turned around a few lads (in particular) who had dropped out of academic education.
Part of the problem is in insisting that young people stay in the education system for so long, Many really are not suited to it and not only do they not benefit themselves, they can end up hindering others.
The entire obsession with tertiary education is a newish one – and very much, as Ha-Joon Chang makes clear in 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism, an aspect of neo-liberalism. Even in Switzerland, which had historically had very low levels of tertiary education – which clearly had not damaged its economic situation – there has been a trend in recent years to vastly boost tertiary education.
Of course, when you have high unemployment – particularly among young people – it's quite handy to keep them in education.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
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