Well it seems like the coalition has listened and is going big on infra-structure spending. They are considering funding it through peopl'e individual savings, rather than more borrowing. So, for all you Keynsians, you know who you are, get any money withdrawn from your ISA, bank, building society accounts and invest in "growth bonds". Masterstoke from the government - Plan A with Plan B funded by those calling for it.
Post subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:05 pm
El Barbudo
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Feb 26 2002 Posts: 14522 Location: Online
Dally wrote:Well it seems like the coalition has listened and is going big on infra-structure spending. They are considering funding it through peopl'e individual savings, rather than more borrowing. So, for all you Keynsians, you know who you are, get any money withdrawn from your ISA, bank, building society accounts and invest in "growth bonds". Masterstoke from the government - Plan A with Plan B funded by those calling for it.
On the face of it, it does look like a good idea, using fairly dormant money to fund infrastructure works and, thereby, growth. It also gives savers a better return on their money than the current low interest rates give them.
However ... It depends on what infrastructure works we are talking about and where they will be.
And ... HM Gov can issue bonds at a historically low yield (i.e. cheap interest), so what Gideon is suggesting is that we stump up our savings to pay for infrastructure works and get a higher rate of interest from the developers than HM Gov would have to pay if they did it. The developers will then recoup their higher interest that they paid us by, erm, charging us to use "their" motorways or leasing them back to us at a higher price than if the government did it.
But hey, it's not "borrowing".
Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.
Post subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:37 pm
Standee
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 37503
El Barbudo wrote:On the face of it, it does look like a good idea, using fairly dormant money to fund infrastructure works and, thereby, growth. It also gives savers a better return on their money than the current low interest rates give them.
However ... It depends on what infrastructure works we are talking about and where they will be.
And ... HM Gov can issue bonds at a historically low yield (i.e. cheap interest), so what Gideon is suggesting is that we stump up our savings to pay for infrastructure works and get a higher rate of interest from the developers than HM Gov would have to pay if they did it. The developers will then recoup their higher interest that they paid us by, erm, charging us to use "their" motorways or leasing them back to us at a higher price than if the government did it.
But hey, it's not "borrowing".
nearly as barmy as the Green Deal legislation planned.
Post subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:40 pm
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
I've got a better idea.
Prevent any company that utilises "tax efficiency" schemes via any non-EU country from bidding on any government contracts and give 6 months notice of termination of contract to any company who already has such a contract, unless they remove these "efficient vehicles" and start paying their full whack of UK tax.
Then offer 99 year leases at a peppercorn rent, to any charity or non-profit organisation that wishes to build social housing on publicly owned land. Build houses and rent them at 50% of current market rates, with no possibility of "right-to-buy". That would attract investment from insurance companies and pension funds because it also would be a far better rate than gilts.
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Post subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:42 pm
Standee
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 37503
cod'ead wrote:Then offer 99 year leases at a peppercorn rent, to any charity or non-profit organisation that wishes to build social housing on publicly owned land. Build houses and rent them at 50% of current market rates, with no possibility of "right-to-buy". That would attract investment from insurance companies and pension funds because it also would be a far better rate than gilts.
great idea, never going to happen (with either Tories or Labour in power)
Social Housing is a bit of a "problem child" to our political establishment I am afraid.
Post subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:42 pm
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
El Barbudo wrote:On the face of it, it does look like a good idea, using fairly dormant money to fund infrastructure works and, thereby, growth. It also gives savers a better return on their money than the current low interest rates give them.
However ... It depends on what infrastructure works we are talking about and where they will be.
And ... HM Gov can issue bonds at a historically low yield (i.e. cheap interest), so what Gideon is suggesting is that we stump up our savings to pay for infrastructure works and get a higher rate of interest from the developers than HM Gov would have to pay if they did it. The developers will then recoup their higher interest that they paid us by, erm, charging us to use "their" motorways or leasing them back to us at a higher price than if the government did it.
But hey, it's not "borrowing".
The government can't borrow the money from the banks because the money that the banks are currently sitting on is the money that the government printed through QE. Quite why they didn't simply print it and then spend it on capital projects is beyond me
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Post subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:51 pm
sally cinnamon
Club Coach
Joined: Oct 12 2004 Posts: 16271
Sounds like a reasonable idea to me. It's better to get more domestic savers involved with holding UK government bonds, because then when the government ends up paying the interest on the bonds it goes back into the UK economy and gets recycled round. It's why Japan has been able to sustain debt levels that are on a different stratosphere to Europe and the US, because nearly all their debt is owed to Japanese citizens so although their government pays a huge interest bill every year it is paying its own citizens who spend that money back in the Japanese economy.
I will be inclined to do my bit for our great nation and put some money aside in growth bonds, I assume Dally being a fellow patriot will do the same?
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Post subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:55 pm
Big Graeme
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Mar 08 2002 Posts: 26578 Location: On the set of NEDS...
sally cinnamon wrote:Sounds like a reasonable idea to me. It's better to get more domestic savers involved with holding UK government bonds, because then when the government ends up paying the interest on the bonds it goes back into the UK economy and gets recycled round. It's why Japan has been able to sustain debt levels that are on a different stratosphere to Europe and the US, because nearly all their debt is owed to Japanese citizens so although their government pays a huge interest bill every year it is paying its own citizens who spend that money back in the Japanese economy.
I will be inclined to do my bit for our great nation and put some money aside in growth bonds, I assume Dally being a fellow patriot will do the same?
The general idea is sound enough and government bonds are about as safe as you can get, the execution of the deal is screwed up though.
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