Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Rooster Booster wrote:... Mintball, you must have been in the National Union of Journalists? How did they help you if you were?
I'm a member of the NUJ, although I don't have to be.
Fourteen years ago, I happened to be the Mother of Chapel (steward) on a Buggins' Turn basis when the management where I worked tried to sack the editor on trumped-up grounds and install the CEO's son-in-law.
The union were absolutely fantastic in supporting us right through to getting him reinstated, from helping me through legal minefields of which I had no previous knowledge to ensuring that we all ( we were a small chapel) received money while on strike for six weeks.
I'd remain a member on that basis alone.
These days I'm freelance and do most of my work for one client, who also employs a number of other freelances on a long-term basis. In the last couple of years, the union has negotiated for a recognition of our somewhat peculiar circumstances with a rise in day rate and also legal minimum paid leave. In this case, it was negotiation alone – but that meant management negotiating with one person on behalf of all of us – and not having to go through something like eight separate sets of negotiations.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Sal Paradise wrote:I was not crying about not getting a pay rise - I was merely stating the facts, this is what happens out there in the "real world" - it isn't fair particularly on the lower paid. The approach of the union isn't right either - in printing it is proving counter-productive. Union members are not only not getting an increase the union's negotiating stance means they have no longer got a job!! I didn't ask for a pay rise, I didn't need to the company had already pre-empted that discussion!! I have a choice, no one is forcing me to stay with my current employer - we all have the ability to change our lives.
In December I was offered another job at a bigger printing company owned by PE - so that tells you who the firm is - for 15k a year more than my current salary, I chose to stay so your assumption of envy is way off the mark. Then that is typical, you have little comprehension of what is going on - preferring to fire insults and inaccuracies from up on the high toilet of diatribe...
Listen sunny. You whinge and you whine and you condemn others. Get over yourself – and then perhaps people won't rip you to shreds whenever you make a complete plonker of yourself
And I note you haven't answered my point: you were saying that your nasty boss refused a pay rise when you asked for one – presumably, given how concerned you are about financial prudence, the employer could have afforded it (or you wouldn't have asked, would you?) but chose not to because that is the reality of the situation. Not that they couldn't afford it, but because they can get away, in the current climate, with forcing a pay cut on you.
As for your being offered a better paid job but not taking it – then why cry about how your current boss didn't give you a pay rise that you asked for? Make your mind up.
Sal Paradise wrote:Trade unions have a role, some do it better than other ...
This is a big leap forward for you. Well done.
Sal Paradise wrote: - Unite is more interested in political point scoring than it is servicing its members. Perhaps it needs to look at its own salary levels before chastising others about the inequity of it all. There is something pretty obscene about a GS in 150k plus spouting about fairness in labour rates!!
Only if the same individual is espousing the same pay rates for everyone, regardless of what job they do. Has that happened?
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Here you go Sal, spend a nice weekend getting to know trades unionists and finding out what they are really about. It's a couple of weeks before the start of the London Olympics, so no danger of getting caught up in all that hulabaloo, it really is a perfect family weekend.
Here you go Sal, spend a nice weekend getting to know trades unionists and finding out what they are really about. It's a couple of weeks before the start of the London Olympics, so no danger of getting caught up in all that hulabaloo, it really is a perfect family weekend.
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 7155 Location: Sydney 2000
Mintball wrote:I'm a member of the NUJ, although I don't have to be.
Fourteen years ago, I happened to be the Mother of Chapel (steward) on a Buggins' Turn basis when the management where I worked tried to sack the editor on trumped-up grounds and install the CEO's son-in-law.
The union were absolutely fantastic in supporting us right through to getting him reinstated, from helping me through legal minefields of which I had no previous knowledge to ensuring that we all ( we were a small chapel) received money while on strike for six weeks.
I'd remain a member on that basis alone.
These days I'm freelance and do most of my work for one client, who also employs a number of other freelances on a long-term basis. In the last couple of years, the union has negotiated for a recognition of our somewhat peculiar circumstances with a rise in day rate and also legal minimum paid leave. In this case, it was negotiation alone – but that meant management negotiating with one person on behalf of all of us – and not having to go through something like eight separate sets of negotiations.
You were an MOC as we'd call them, though that was very, very rare in the print game 30 years ago.
I can't believe you get paid leave as a freelancer. Jammy cow.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Rooster Booster wrote:You were an MOC as we'd call them, though that was very, very rare in the print game 30 years ago.
I can't believe you get paid leave as a freelancer. Jammy cow.
It's simply because some of us have been freelancing pretty much full time for the same client for so long that we're now covered by quite a lot of employment rights legislation. In my case, it's around five and a half years – in at least one case, it's 10 years and counting. That certainly wasn't on the cards, but I have turned down other work subsequently as a result.
There's a recognition that, at some stage, the situation needs to be properly formalised. And that was an interim move.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: Mar 28 2010 Posts: 5506 Location: Albi, France
Mintball wrote::D
It's simply because some of us have been freelancing pretty much full time for the same client for so long that we're now covered by quite a lot of employment rights legislation. In my case, it's around five and a half years – in at least one case, it's 10 years and counting. That certainly wasn't on the cards, but I have turned down other work subsequently as a result.
There's a recognition that, at some stage, the situation needs to be properly formalised. And that was an interim move.
just an update MB
regarding my claim (via the union legal beagle) - the case was upheld (or I failed to win) by the Works Tribunal because my star witness ,who is no longer with the company and who I belived to be my best mate agreed to take a generous bung from the company and signed a document stating everything I said was false and to never testify against the company....
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
sanjunien wrote:just an update MB
regarding my claim (via the union legal beagle) - the case was upheld (or I failed to win) by the Works Tribunal because my star witness ,who is no longer with the company and who I belived to be my best mate agreed to take a generous bung from the company and signed a document stating everything I said was false and to never testify against the company....
just the sort of mate you need ?
I'm sorry to hear that, sanjunien. rubbish.
I'd suggest, though, that although it's too late in this case for you, it's an illustration of just why being in a union can be important – you can't just assume (as some here seem to) that an employer will always be good and decent and never take the proverbial.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: Mar 28 2010 Posts: 5506 Location: Albi, France
Mintball wrote:I'm sorry to hear that, sanjunien. rubbish.
I'd suggest, though, that although it's too late in this case for you, it's an illustration of just why being in a union can be important – you can't just assume (as some here seem to) that an employer will always be good and decent and never take the proverbial.
the problem is that the guy who was going to testify for me (my old boss at the company) managed to get a job in switzerland which is far enough away from me to not bump into me again,even by chance - his testimony would have cost the company about £40K though I don't believe the company would have even gone to court - they would have settled out of court
they offered him a few months salary,that's all but it was enough for him to not want to tell the truth - talk about losing faith in human nature ?
the company have got away with murder - the union has been great but ineffectual against such bribery etc
I have one month to appeal but there's no point unfortunately...believe it or not,it's not the money I was after,just some justice but I didn't account for a 'mate' screwing me like that ...
Joined: Mar 28 2010 Posts: 5506 Location: Albi, France
Wanderer wrote:... not much of a mate ... the word Judas springs to mind!
I called him worse on the phone when he eventually agreed to speak with me...
for the first time in my life (honestly) I said to him in my best french and really meant it " I just hope you rot in your grave you mercenary nice bloke"
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