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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:54 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
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Sal Paradise wrote:Where do you think the money comes from to pay these benefits? taxation a great deal of which is corporate taxation...

In 2010, corporation tax made up 7% of the total tax take.






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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:13 pm 
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As to the jobs Minty is looking for - vancacies in the UK are up 9% in the first quarter relative to the same period last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:33 pm 
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El Barbudo wrote:In 2010, corporation tax made up 7% of the total tax take.


And in work benefits accounted for how much of the tax take?






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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Mintball wrote:Nothing I have said has suggested that I object to genuine progress.

Now, explain where all the new jobs are coming from to replace the ones that have been caused by this 'progress' – or how people are going to live if they don't materialise, and how companies are going to sell their good is more and more people are put out of work by this 'progress', as you call it.


Yes it has.

You are objecting to recent progress on the basis that it takes away jobs, just like the word processor, the mechanised loom etc. So, what's the difference between the self-checkout making a checkout operator redundanty and farm machinery making the farm worked redundant? Why do you claim you would not have objected to the latter, whilst objecting to the former? Do you see the discrepancy?

Mintball wrote:I didn't say it was an example of that – rather the opposite.

It's a result of what you appear to think is 'progress' – all this cutting costs and getting rid of staff etc. It is something that follows from that.


You'll need to clarify then what you think you meant then, because it wasn't at all clear.

Mintball wrote:Jesus – can you really not understand or your really just trying to twist everything because you'll do absolutely anything to act as an apologist for big business?

Chill out. The fact that you can't make your contradictory views understood is not my fault. I have made no attempts to "twist" anything at all.


Mintball wrote:and if you could read

Never takes you long to start with insults, longer than usual in this thread, but never long. Anyway, onwards:

Mintball wrote:But if you want more examples, I can do loads – and if you could read you'd know that there were two examples of the loss of expertise in that one anecdote. Only one of them related to specifically to B&Q.

Let's think ... well, there's how you used to be able to go into bookshops and ask them about stuff, but nobody knows anything now. I used to love going into the classical and jazz sections in Virgin Megastore, because they'll always be able to recommend things on the basis of knowledge. Forget that.

It's been replaced by the internet. Progress. Brilliant. I find the staff at Waterstones particularly knowledgeable by the way, but that's soon to be replaced by the progress of the likes of the Kindle: More expertese, better expertese, faster expertese. Progress. Brilliant.

Mintball wrote:try going into a supermarket and asking one of their 'butchers' or 'fishmongers' what to do with a particular cut of meat/fish – or even whether they could prepare it a certain way (see Blythman for specific, cross-UK evidence of this).

Is that what you think most consumers want from a supermarket? The way supermarkets have positioned their service would suggest the significant majority of consumers do not, and instead want low prices and fast service. So the supermarket has progressed to supply what it's customers want.
There is (or should be) still the facility for the minority that want advice from their supplier, if there are enough of them.

Mintball wrote:Yes. I think it's corporate-style BS that avoids actually answering a question.

I thought it answered the question perfectly well.

Mintball wrote:More BS. In a climate where there's high unemployment? Why do you think big business lurves high unemployment? Why do you think big business has been consistently demanding no caps on immigration?

In a climate where there's fear of losing a job and of not being able to find anything else? In a climate where trades unions have been close to emasculated – and where plenty of idiots popping up to say that you should simply accept whatever the bosses mete out to you 'cos that's 'the real world'?


Not BS at all. Try getting an employee whilst offering a pound an hour. You won't get one. Nor at £2 an hour. You will get an employee at a price, a price that represents a price a person is prepared to work at.






Northampton RL....details here: //www.northamptonrl.co.uk

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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Sal Paradise wrote:Where do you think the money comes from to pay these benefits? taxation a great deal of which is corporate taxation. So in effect these companies are actually paying their staff at the correct levels it is just the method of how the income is made up. I would be very surprised if the total cost of in work benefits is not significantly smaller than the total take for corporation tax.

Then why go through such a ridiculously circular way of doing it? Why not just pay them a decent wage?






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bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:32 pm 
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SmokeyTA wrote:Then why go through such a ridiculously circular way of doing it? Why not just pay them a decent wage?


Because the companies are paying the market rate (people queue for the jobs). The tax credits are not paid by the companies.

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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Dally wrote: The tax credits are not paid by the companies.


Neither is the true rate of corporation tax that should be funding the credits (among other things), by some larger companies






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Last edited by cod'ead on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:51 pm 
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cod'ead wrote:Neither is the true rate of corporation tax that should be funding the credits (among other things)


What on Earth is the "true" rate of corporation tax!?

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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Dally wrote:What on Earth is the "true" rate of corporation tax!?


The rate they should be paying as opposed to paying accountants to help them avoid it.






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

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 Post subject: Re: Unite strike again!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:07 pm 
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cod'ead wrote:The rate they should be paying as opposed to paying accountants to help them avoid it.


But, what is the rate they should be paying? Isn't it set by law? Why don't you stand for election to try to change things?

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