Sorry mate but don't agree with that at all.

Look at the job McGuire did with the same squad at Wigan that noble had. Look at the difference in our play under DA.

A coach can organise a team and at the moment that's what we need as we've no organisation at all.

I think it's time to make a clean cut away from the current coach and his assistant and bring two in that have some fresh ideas.

You missed a word out there St pete,

* quality.

If you do sack RS, who do you get? You could go through two or three before someone right is appointed. I see Rogues got some stick for his comment, but he is right. If your not careful you could go the same way we did and churn coaches in the next few years. Remember, it took years for Wigan to work out it was attitude on the training park more than anything that was wrong. I believe Radlinski, SW and Bitcon had as much to do with the change as MM did. Its not all down to coaching the starting first team 17.

That's why in a thread I've just started I've stated we need a new coach Witt his own men on his coaching staff just like MM did at Wigan.

But some of the coaching staff stayed. SW, has been there through most of the coaches but he did not change it years ago. For all I know he could have been banging on Mo's door every day trying to make him see what was wrong. But what made Wigan wake up?? I have no idea but Radlinski book came out not long after it started to change. I know a lot of Wigan fans bang on about it, but if you have not read it, it is well worth it from a RL point of view. He does tell you what was wrong and what was going on. I remember talking to Terry O'connor in his last year at Wigan, his exact words to me, "Wigan will nothing with Mo in charge. The sooner he goes the better for Wigan" He was shafted in his last year and was bitter, but he was right.

As Lippy points out, the changes made at Wigan were bigger than just a change of coaching staff. The change of owner from Whelan to Lenegan was the instigator for our recent success. Ian went about changing everything, from the staff, to the ethos at the club. But we needed it, and badly.

I think it's perhaps a tad too early to say that much of a change is needed at Saints.

As many of you probably won't like to admit it. I don't think Rogues is far off in his appraisal of Saints current predicament. It certainly rings bells with me, and reminds me of the slippery slope Wigan went down.

I think it's too early to be sacking Simmons. Especially as he got us to the GF last season with a depleted squad. However, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if McManus is thinking very seriously about the question. Let's not forget that it was Simmons himself who said failure to bring home a trophy this season will cost him his job. Irrespective of whether we think this squad is good enough or not it's pretty clear McMANUS thinks it is and if Royce cannot realise the potential he sees in it he's a goner.

What about Noble? Wigan in 2005/2006 were in a very similar position to us, with lynchpins leaving (Farrell). Could he turn us around the way he did Wigan? Would the players respond to him, some of them having played under him at GB level?

It depends who makes the decisions at Saints. I've never had anyone state categorically who is in charge of identifying and signing players for the first team. If it's McManus, then sacking the coach is the only option, other than to put his hands up and admit the blame, which he is very unlikely to do. After all his chest beating about the stadium and our wonderful side, he's gone awfully quiet all of a sudden.

How anyone could suggest the current squad is capable of winning a trophy is beyond me. It's a mid table side that is in mid table. Simmons isn't a great coach and we're just ticking along where we should be with the squad we've got. What the club desperately needs is to rediscover it's ambition if the stadium's potential is to be fulfilled. I wouldn't like the task of selling season tickets for next season if we continue playing the horrible style of rugby we play at the moment and this season goes as it is looking likely to do.

If you want stability in a transition then Noble is your man, he'll stop you slipping any further. However I'm not sure he has it in him tactically to get the best out of a Saints squad. He was lucky to inherit a very good Bulls side that made his name by blending perfectly with his forward based risk adverse tactics. If Saints fans can't except five drives and a kick under Simmons, then you'd be disappointed with Nobles approach which is similar. I don't think the Noble style suits Saints or it's personnel, just like it didn't work to Wigan's full potential.

I'm wondering whether Royce's health issues before the season started have taken something away from his focus for the season.