Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:21 pm
bewareshadows
Player Coach
Joined: Sep 26 2009 Posts: 8991 Location: Leeds
Dux wrote:True, but I thought collectively the pack was much better on Sunday. If we can add a fired up Perry to that pack (admittedly a big 'if') then I think we won't look too shabby up front at all.
Oh I agree it was an overall more consistent defensive display, I thought we looked very solid in defense.
For me those who came out with a + from the pack were
La Frank, TP, Sia (but he was a pain in the first half), Flanaghan, Lance
I may have missed stuff, I can't say I was analysing whilst enjoying the game, but the rest for me whilst defensively sound as houses, did not have any impact, that stuck in the memory.
Clough, Wilkin, Roby (even before he went off), LMS, Dixon, Flannery.
I'm certainly a glass half full kinda chap and I think if we had LMS or Clough running with the effectiveness of La Franki, then we may have had that extra go forward to put Huddersfield under some real pressure rather than the balanced game it turned out to be.
Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:41 pm
St pete
Club Coach
Joined: Mar 07 2009 Posts: 16963
SaintsFan wrote:He played at Huddersfield. Before then he played at Hull KR. He played against Salford too, London and Widnes as well. So in other words, this player who has hardly figured recently has missed one match this season so far.
You really do love a moan don't you?
Dixon was originally not picked for the London game but flannery pulled out sick on the morning of the game.
Mugwump mocking mental illness for a second time -
"You are mentally ill and I can't indulge your madness any more"
Utter disgusting abusive remark from a keyboard warrior
Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:04 pm
The Chair Maker
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 12738 Location: The heart of gods Country, Haydock
bewareshadows wrote:Oh I agree it was an overall more consistent defensive display, I thought we looked very solid in defense.
For me those who came out with a + from the pack were
La Frank, TP, Sia (but he was a pain in the first half), Flanaghan, Lance
I may have missed stuff, I can't say I was analysing whilst enjoying the game, but the rest for me whilst defensively sound as houses, did not have any impact, that stuck in the memory.
Clough, Wilkin, Roby (even before he went off), LMS, Dixon, Flannery.
I'm certainly a glass half full kinda chap and I think if we had LMS or Clough running with the effectiveness of La Franki, then we may have had that extra go forward to put Huddersfield under some real pressure rather than the balanced game it turned out to be.
I thought Clough was second only to Soliola in terms of making yards against Hudds. He didnt look that far away from his form from previous to his injury last year eg 100metres+ a match
Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:20 pm
bewareshadows
Player Coach
Joined: Sep 26 2009 Posts: 8991 Location: Leeds
The Chair Maker wrote:I thought Clough was second only to Soliola in terms of making yards against Hudds. He didnt look that far away from his form from previous to his injury last year eg 100metres+ a match
You see, there you go, when you watch you don't see everything. I think what gets me is that I know he runs the ball in hard, but he just never seams to bust the line, or he does the spin thingg but doesn't produce an offload. I don't mean everytime either. He is a decent forward, but I'm still not sure, as we need that second phase play one way or another.
Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:31 pm
Saint Simon
Player Coach
Joined: Jun 29 2007 Posts: 12189 Location: where ever i am
bewareshadows wrote:You see, there you go, when you watch you don't see everything. I think what gets me is that I know he runs the ball in hard, but he just never seams to bust the line, or he does the spin thingg but doesn't produce an offload. I don't mean everytime either. He is a decent forward, but I'm still not sure, as we need that second phase play one way or another.
i see what you mean, but a forward who makes 100+ mtrs a game is always invaluable, making the opposition do a hell of a lot of work, and making them tire faster, and getting us field position
Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:02 pm
bewareshadows
Player Coach
Joined: Sep 26 2009 Posts: 8991 Location: Leeds
Saint Simon wrote:i see what you mean, but a forward who makes 100+ mtrs a game is always invaluable, making the opposition do a hell of a lot of work, and making them tire faster, and getting us field position
Yeh I conceed the point. He does more than I give him credit for. I used to be a big fan 2 years ago, but at that point we did have other props doing the fancy stuff too.
Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:04 pm
The Chair Maker
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 12738 Location: The heart of gods Country, Haydock
bewareshadows wrote:You see, there you go, when you watch you don't see everything. I think what gets me is that I know he runs the ball in hard, but he just never seams to bust the line, or he does the spin thingg but doesn't produce an offload. I don't mean everytime either. He is a decent forward, but I'm still not sure, as we need that second phase play one way or another.
Cloughy is vastly under rated by many Saints fans. That spin thing is great its what helps him make those extra yards and come up with plenty of tackle busts. Just wish other forwards would learn the technique. Statistically he is superior to Ben Harrison who many fans, and the media rave on about. Both players are the same age by the way.
bewareshadows wrote:You see, there you go, when you watch you don't see everything. I think what gets me is that I know he runs the ball in hard, but he just never seams to bust the line, or he does the spin thingg but doesn't produce an offload. I don't mean everytime either. He is a decent forward, but I'm still not sure, as we need that second phase play one way or another.
Cloughy is vastly under rated by many Saints fans. That spin thing is great its what helps him make those extra yards and come up with plenty of tackle busts. Just wish other forwards would learn the technique. Statistically he is superior to Ben Harrison who many fans, and the media rave on about. Both players are the same age by the way.
Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:16 pm
bewareshadows
Player Coach
Joined: Sep 26 2009 Posts: 8991 Location: Leeds
The Chair Maker wrote:Cloughy is vastly under rated by many Saints fans. That spin thing is great its what helps him make those extra yards and come up with plenty of tackle busts. Just wish other forwards would learn the technique. Statistically he is superior to Ben Harrison who many fans, and the media rave on about. Both players are the same age by the way.
Yep you're right and the stats hold up this year too. I'll hush my mouth.
The Chair Maker wrote:Cloughy is vastly under rated by many Saints fans. That spin thing is great its what helps him make those extra yards and come up with plenty of tackle busts. Just wish other forwards would learn the technique. Statistically he is superior to Ben Harrison who many fans, and the media rave on about. Both players are the same age by the way.
Post subject: Re: 19 Man squad announced for Hull FC
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:00 am
saint at wire
Club Coach
Joined: May 13 2005 Posts: 2931 Location: In Dire Straits
The Chair Maker wrote:Cloughy is vastly under rated by many Saints fans. That spin thing is great its what helps him make those extra yards and come up with plenty of tackle busts. Just wish other forwards would learn the technique. Statistically he is superior to Ben Harrison who many fans, and the media rave on about. Both players are the same age by the way.
I don't think so. Firstly Harrison plays LF usually so comparisons are fairly meaningless. This means that in 2010 things like marker tackles Harrison is way ahead of Clough but also his missed tackles for the same reason. Metes made, carries and tackles - not much in it wheras Harrison has more a lot offloads and Clough a lot more tackle busts, a lower error rate and fewer pens, so IMO nothing is really proven about whose stats are best given their different roles.
In 2011 the same pattern was repeated proportionately to the reduced no of games played by Clough.
Perhaps the comparison with other players who have played in the same position might be better. Flanno vs Harrison (Harrison by a country mile) Wilkin vs Harrison (Wilkin shades it and worth the extra for his kicking game)
The Chair Maker wrote:Cloughy is vastly under rated by many Saints fans. That spin thing is great its what helps him make those extra yards and come up with plenty of tackle busts. Just wish other forwards would learn the technique. Statistically he is superior to Ben Harrison who many fans, and the media rave on about. Both players are the same age by the way.
I don't think so. Firstly Harrison plays LF usually so comparisons are fairly meaningless. This means that in 2010 things like marker tackles Harrison is way ahead of Clough but also his missed tackles for the same reason. Metes made, carries and tackles - not much in it wheras Harrison has more a lot offloads and Clough a lot more tackle busts, a lower error rate and fewer pens, so IMO nothing is really proven about whose stats are best given their different roles.
In 2011 the same pattern was repeated proportionately to the reduced no of games played by Clough.
Perhaps the comparison with other players who have played in the same position might be better. Flanno vs Harrison (Harrison by a country mile) Wilkin vs Harrison (Wilkin shades it and worth the extra for his kicking game)
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