Yes.



His influence and the manner in which he is hailed is out of all proportion to his talent and what he has written. I mentioned previously assorted composers who are not bad, but who are nowhere near as well known as the likes of Gershwin or R&H – partly because they might have penned a few good songs, but nowhere the numbers of many of R&H or others we've mentioned.

Take Jule Styne, for instance: there are a couple of stonkingly great show tunes in Gypsy – but most of us, even if we knew them and knew who'd composed them (and even if we knew who the lyricist was), would be hard pressed to think of more from that show – let alone any other Styne vehicle.

Same with Meredith Wilson and The Music Man, which probably has one stand-out tune that many people will know even without knowing where it came from (Seventy-six Trombones).

But none of these got the equivalent of the state recognition that LW has received.



I also noted earlier, of the accusation of "snobbery": "... it will simply indicate just how far down the path of mediocrity and dross we have gone."

Dross and mediocrity – and an education system in which few young people are introduced to anything that's actually culturally demanding because it doesn't suit league tables and exams that are based on multiple choice.

I don't think it's remotely a question of something entering "the consciousness of old or ageing people" – there's not a person alive, and hasn't been for quite some time, who can remember Mozart when he was a mere child starting out (or even when he died), but the passing of something like 21 generations since his flesh-and-bone demise has not meant that his music has passed from consciousness.

And that hasn't meant that people listening to that music have not listened to and enjoyed (or not!) other music too; different types of music and bang-up-to-date music.



The way in which he is hailed and has been lauded and rewarded by the state is out of all proportion to his abilities. And it is not credible – or it certainly shouldn't be.

The vast majority of Elton John's most memorable songs have come from the era when Bernie Taupin was his collaborator. That doesn't mean that Taupin was solely, or even primarily responsible for the hits, just that they both produced their best work together.



I would have to disagree. I've seen Joseph a few times and actually played (in the band) in a local production of the show. I think there are a number of very well written pieces of music in the production that work well in the overall context of the storyline. 'Close Every Door' in particular is excellent. Of course (most of) the music in that show won't appeal outside of the theatre setting, as it's very specific to the storyline.

So this is really just a discussion about degree then?
If ALW is widely lauded then there has to be a fair amount of basis of credibility for it.
He has a knack, a talent, that he has got off his ass and developed. Skills and talents are pyramidal in my humble estimation, for every great performer there are a raft of lesser talents below and so on.
He is near the top of the pyramid in his field. Which is writing and producing musicals and creating a swathe of public support in his work. He's an entertainer, I don't suppose even he would claim to be exceptionally gifted.
But his work is very pleasant on the ear.
To dismiss him as not being a heavyweight is beside the point.
He's done it, what talent he has had, he has used it.
Which most people don't do, they hide their light under a bushel and then criticise those that have the balls to go out and achieve something.

But that is not the same as Lloyd Webber not being credible as a songwriter. Whatever you think of his ratio of good to bad songs, or of how he compares to Rogers and Hammerstein (and others), to say that the man responsible for 'Music Of The Night', 'Don't Cry For Me Argentina' and 'Love Changes Everything' is not a credible songwriter is either snobbery or stupidity. As we cannot level accusations of stupidity at you, that only leaves one option...

Will anyone come to the rescue of a damsel in distress?

Anyway ...
Isn't the art of winning this miserable contest to put the song out in advance?
That German winning thing that won two years or so ago being a example.
It shouldn't be allowed.
God that German song was miserable!
Miserable is my word for today.

I accept that those are his 'big' songs - just as i have been quite clear, in this discussion, tha he has written memorable songs - but they're not close to even the 'lessor' songs of someone like Gershwin. And please note I haven't even mentioned one Stephen Sondhiem.

Honestly: I don't know how to love him isn't even close to, say, something like Can't Help Loving' Thy Man from a certain 1927 show by Rogers and Hart.

Not sure how you define SONGwriter? But, Lloyd Webber did not write the words to any of those.

So it's not accurate to say that he's not credible as a songwriter, just that you personally don't rate him as highly as you rate others.

Saw Aspects of Love - it was absolute Sh**e. Then to add insult to injury one of my then colleagues booked it to entertain European colleagues. I therefore had to therefore suffer (and I mean suffer) it twice!

Obviously. As I made clear when I mentioned his collaboration with the lyricist Tim Rice.