ROBINSON wrote:Petrol prices will continue to go up as long as people aren't prepared to live without their cars.
If people are daft enough to pay it, the oil companies are daft enough to charge it, and the governments are daft enough to keep putting further taxes and duties on it.
Only when we all buy either 1.0 urinators (you know, for p155ing about in), or electric cars, or walk, or get a decent public transport system, will we all stop consuming petrol at stupid rates.
And no, cod'ead, I don't drive a gas guzzler before you start.
Read an article about electric cars a couple of weeks ago. Sales are very poor. One of the reasons is they are so expensive. 25k even with a 5k Govt subsidy.
Joined: Sep 22 2011 Posts: 833 Location: Waiting for a pint in West London
I dread to think what petrol will cost in 20 years time, even without the upheaval in the middle East, Etc it will be out of reach of most people by then.
This year I want to see Us going forward in the last 5 minutes even if we are 40 points up.
Joined: Feb 17 2002 Posts: 28357 Location: MACS0647-JD
Wnidyone2012 wrote:I dread to think what petrol will cost in 20 years time, even without the upheaval in the middle East, Etc it will be out of reach of most people by then.
Or not. If the vast majority of people couldn't afford petrol, then there would be no point in making the stuff. The producing countries ain't that stupid. They are expert at keeping the price maxed at a level that everyone will still stump up, even if complaining bitterly, and the only other thing that is likely to change over time is the government's tax take percentage.
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
What I do find somewhat surprising is why the oil companies sold off the refining operations to 3rd parties. They have traditionally controlled all operations from well to tank but for some reason decided (almost en-masse) to ditch refining. I can only assume that their shareholders decided that there was not enough margin in refining (there seems little scope for adding further value in that process) and instructed them to sell it off and book the cash. So they sell it off to smaller operations, who don't have the finances to withstand a period of high raw material prices AND lower demand. Obviously a short-term gain for big oil but a potential problem if other refiners are suffering similar problems.
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Joined: Sep 22 2011 Posts: 833 Location: Waiting for a pint in West London
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:Or not. If the vast majority of people couldn't afford petrol, then there would be no point in making the stuff. The producing countries ain't that stupid. They are expert at keeping the price maxed at a level that everyone will still stump up, even if complaining bitterly, and the only other thing that is likely to change over time is the government's tax take percentage.
Thought I had read somewhere that the developing world will be buying more cars etc than the west in the next couple of years, so demand is going to rise in the next few years.
This year I want to see Us going forward in the last 5 minutes even if we are 40 points up.
Joined: Feb 25 2004 Posts: 2874 Location: Sometimes Workington, Sometimes Warrington, Often on the M6
cod'ead wrote:What I do find somewhat surprising is why the oil companies sold off the refining operations to 3rd parties. They have traditionally controlled all operations from well to tank but for some reason decided (almost en-masse) to ditch refining. I can only assume that their shareholders decided that there was not enough margin in refining (there seems little scope for adding further value in that process) and instructed them to sell it off and book the cash. So they sell it off to smaller operations, who don't have the finances to withstand a period of high raw material prices AND lower demand. Obviously a short-term gain for big oil but a potential problem if other refiners are suffering similar problems.
There are a number of reasons why the big companies got out of refining. Firstly, they earn on average between 20-25% return on capital employed in oil exploration activities, but even in good times the return on refining is only around 8%. Secondly, and the main reason why they exited, is simply because there is massive overcapacity in the industry and overcapacity in a depressed market spells huge problems. A refinery obviously has huge fixed costs and even when it is not producing much it still carries significant costs such as maintenance and safety and regulatory compliance, without even taking into account the payroll and other infrastructure. If the market overcapacity means you are going to be operating at 60% of the plant's capacity for the foreseeable future then it doesn't take a genius to work out that the economics don't stack up - especially when new refineries are opening in China and India which don't have the same regulatory burdens.
ROBINSON wrote:Petrol prices will continue to go up as long as people aren't prepared to live without their cars.
If people are daft enough to pay it, the oil companies are daft enough to charge it, and the governments are daft enough to keep putting further taxes and duties on it.
Only when we all buy either 1.0 urinators (you know, for p155ing about in), or electric cars, or walk, or get a decent public transport system, will we all stop consuming petrol at stupid rates.
And no, cod'ead, I don't drive a gas guzzler before you start.
It's all very well saying but what if you have no option but to drive?
Joined: Jan 02 2003 Posts: 43413 Location: rlfans flying wing man
cod'ead wrote:So they sell it off to smaller operations, who don't have the finances to withstand a period of high raw material prices AND lower demand.
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