BrisbaneRhino wrote:Isn't one of the biggest jokes on young people sending so many of them into further education? Rather than subsidise so many kids to go to uni for 3 years and then discover their qualification is almost worthless, a large number would be far better off learning a trade (I'd bet the cost to the taxpayer would be similar), or simply starting to work at 16 or 18 and not even bother with any form of further education... In the 1980s, the government of the day scrapped apprenticeships. The Labour government re-introduced some level of apprenticeships, as did some individual councils. This is very interesting on a whole range of things that relate directly to the financial crisis of the last few years and the neo-liberal policies that have led us here. Interestingly, the increase in tertiary education is not limited to the UK. Even Switzerland – a country that had done pretty well, even with a low level of university education – has gone down the same route of vastly increasing tertiary participation.

BrisbaneRhino wrote:Isn't one of the biggest jokes on young people sending so many of them into further education? Rather than subsidise so many kids to go to uni for 3 years and then discover their qualification is almost worthless, a large number would be far better off learning a trade (I'd bet the cost to the taxpayer would be similar), or simply starting to work at 16 or 18 and not even bother with any form of further education... In the 1980s, the government of the day scrapped apprenticeships. The Labour government re-introduced some level of apprenticeships, as did some individual councils. This is very interesting on a whole range of things that relate directly to the financial crisis of the last few years and the neo-liberal policies that have led us here. Interestingly, the increase in tertiary education is not limited to the UK. Even Switzerland – a country that had done pretty well, even with a low level of university education – has gone down the same route of vastly increasing tertiary participation.

Absolutely have no problem in you getting or not getting job Damo. That is your call.

What I DO have a problem with, is giving you benefits in this situation.

If I was PM you would get nothing. If you were faced with starvation, I am sure the jobs in question would look that much more "appetising".

Labour's problem wasn't too much spending, IMO. If you can't increase spending when the economy is growing, when can you? And whilst I'd agree that some of the money was 'squandered', a great deal of it wasn't. Public services improved greatly under Blair's government, and unemployment was relatively low. I don't like the man (and, as SC pointed out, his foreign policy left a lot to be desired), but, domestically, his government wasn't the disaster some are making it out to be. Also, it's easy to sit there with the benefit of hindsight and say he should have saved during the good times, but I didn't hear anyone saying that whilst the economy was actually growing. In fact, I seem to remember the Tories saying they would match Labour's spending plans before the sh*t hit the fan.

The main problem with the last Labour government, as with successive governments before and since, seems to have been their failure to regulate the banks and to close tax loopholes exploited by big business. What Dally says about individual responsibility is fine to some extent, but individuals having too much personal credit is nowhere near the primary cause of the global financial meltdown. Bringing the banks and the likes of Tesco into line would make a big difference to our financial future.

You continue to lay the blame at the foot of individual borrowers, without ever accepting that in order for anyone to borrow, there has to be someone willing to lend. The ultimate arbiter of responsible borrowing/lending lies with the lender and for many years people with money (banks etc) were only too willing to lend to any idiot that walked through the door.

If anyone wants to sample the continuation of irresponsible lending, try visiting some of the major stores in the run up to Christmas. They are under pressure to sell and will authorise store cards to anyone with a couple of utility bills. It wouldn't be too difficult to rack up £20k of credit in a single day. The one thing that drives irresponsible lending is GREED - all the stores/card providers can see is money being repaid at usurious rates. Rates that are set to cover the high level of defaults.

No wonder borrowers take advantage of them.

As for your assertion that we should be saving rather than spending, that's really the way to get the economy moving again isn't it?

I don't know much about Damo or his circumstances but it's apparent to me that he serves a valuable purpose on this site as a whipping boy to make many posters feel smug and superior.

Irony alert!

Have you seen some of the TV ads for quick loan, with 'representative' interest rates of 1,750 and up?

Perhaps, though he does actively (and quite deliberately, I would say) court the attention he receives. It's a bit of a Sin Bin game: Damo says the most outrageous thing he can think of to highlight his unwillingness to work, then the other participants race to be the first to call him a workshy tosser.

Disgusting. The highest one I've seen is about 4000%. It really ought to be illegal to prey on people in this way.

It's a Catch 22 situation, the problem is too much debt yet the economy grinds to a halt if people stop spending money they haven't got!