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Home The Sin Bin Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?



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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:10 pm 
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sally cinnamon wrote:The recommendation here is that when people are burning down businesses that have a residential property attached to them (eg a newsagents/corner shop where the family live above) then due to the likelihood of this trapping people in the property above and having to either jump out of a window or burn to death then the police reserve the right to use lethal force.



Agreed. But do people feel this is a good or bad thing? Is it a change from years of being soft with criminals and treating them as victims of circumstance?

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:07 pm 
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There is no special "riot law" relating to armed police. Police use of force, including lethal force, is governed by common law and various statutes. These laws apply to all circumstances. Armed police officers in the MPS are always reminded of their legal responsibilities before deploying.
I agree with HIM that it was the numbers that were a major factor. The MPS call out plan used to be able to put thousands of officers on the streets over set periods of hours. The call out plan fell into disuse as officers were deployed on safer neighbourhood teams and "ring fenced" from performing public order duties. I suspect the the new Commisioner will change that.

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:21 pm 
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I saw the title and was looking forward to a thread about shooting civil servants. :SHOOT:

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:34 pm 
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Nowt new. They've murdered quite a few kids with them in the past with apparent impunity.

On 29 August 1975 10-year-old Stephen Geddis became the first and the youngest person to die after being hit by a plastic bullet in Belfast.
While soldiers said they had fired at stone-throwing children in a nationalist area, the government eventually paid compensation to the family.
It was not to be the last time that baton rounds, in use for almost 30 years, would claim a life.
Fourteen people have died after being hit by the PVC tube-shaped rounds.
Seven of the dead were children, including a 12-year-old girl. The last to die was 15-year-old Seamus Duffy in 1989. Three other people died between 1972 and 1973 after being hit by the plastic baton round's predecessor, the rubber bullet.
According to the findings of many inquiries, inquests and court proceedings, only four of those killed had been found to be involved in disorder.
Some £1m in compensation has been paid out but no member of the security forces has been convicted of offences linked to the deaths.






"Arguably the best Rugby League side certainly in the last 40 years!" Phil Clarke.

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:54 pm 
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They might 'start'? Oh Mark Duggan didn't happen then, phew.






It's been fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:56 pm 
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The disappointing part of the article on TV this evening was that they are training the Police to shoot the person below the chest. Sod that hit 'em where it hurts. Knock them over and follow up with a baton and a riot shield. Then a good roughing up in the cells.

They will be inclined to think twice about fire bombing party shops in Clapham if they knew what was round the corner

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:08 pm 
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wire quin wrote:The disappointing part of the article on TV this evening was that they are training the Police to shoot the person below the chest. Sod that hit 'em where it hurts. Knock them over and follow up with a baton and a riot shield. Then a good roughing up in the cells.

They will be inclined to think twice about fire bombing party shops in Clapham if they knew what was round the corner


Why stop there? Why not summary execution?

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:25 pm 
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'cause liberal people like you prefer to give chavs a second chance ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:19 pm 
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wire quin wrote:The disappointing part of the article on TV this evening was that they are training the Police to shoot the person below the chest. Sod that hit 'em where it hurts. Knock them over and follow up with a baton and a riot shield. Then a good roughing up in the cells.

They will be inclined to think twice about fire bombing party shops in Clapham if they knew what was round the corner


Complete rubbish. Police are trained to "stop" targets and aim for the centre of the torso. The reason is that outside Clint Eastwood movies, no-one can shot at a moving target with a single shot weapon with any expectation of hitting a specific part of the body.

I speak from experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Seems like 'we' might start shooting people?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:59 pm 
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Him wrote:I would imagine the police already have the authority and the right to do such a thing anyway.
The problem with it is, as with the idiots suggesting water cannon and rubber bullets would have stopped the riots earlier this year, that a police presence is necessary where these crimes are taking place.

The problem with the police response to the riots wasn't a lack of equipment or wrong tactics. It was a lack of police on the streets.

I think it was a combination of not enough feet on the street and poor tactics - and a poorly executed response. It was difficult for the police to react to a growing, fluid situation, though even when they were there in sufficient numbers, the 'stand off' approach was catastrophic.

As Peter Fahy says, if London had been in control within a few hours then copycat trouble would have been very unlikely. That would have meant the Met going in hard and fast and in great numbers. What actually happened was rioters knew they could do what they liked - often in full view of the line of police blockading one end of the high street - without immediate consequence.

British culture has been, for too long, one of a softly-softly approach. We complain when the police clamp down on disturbances and riots at protests, and the pathetic overreaction to 'kettling' was farcical. Then after we've we condemned and vilified the police for years we don't understand when they aren't willing or perhaps able to do what is necessary to stop violence on the streets. Generations of scrotes have grown up knowing they probably won't face much in the way of severe consequence for their actions and some of the behaviour displayed during the riots was, in part, an extension of that.

Frankly, I'm more surprised that we watch rioters engaging in rioting, arson and other violence and we AREN'T using measure such as plastic bullets or water cannon. And if getting sufficient numbers on the scene in time is an issue, then give them the tools to counter the balance.

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