Joined: Feb 12 2005 Posts: 13126 Location: East Staffordshire
Kosh wrote:Quotes from an openly Euro-sceptic website don't really constitute proof of anything much. Wikipedia (not a definitive source admittedly) says this:
quality mate.
The original Guardian article I quoted makes it pretty clear what the position was going in to the summit. Apologies I couldn't find a related article in Socialist Worker. In fairness to him he pointed out the facts very well, not least how the CAP was disadvantageous to poorer countries. The rhetoric is all in the article. At the end of the summit he had given back some rebate under the cover of financing a bigger budget for a bigger Europe. As you rightly say contributions went up across the board which is clearly why the CAP %age of the budget went down. No concessions were made on the CAP (or other wider budgetary issues) whatsoever so Blair basically failed to deliver what he set out to achieve. Chirac and Shroeder said the CAP was not up for negotiation until 2013. It was Merkel's first summit and she brokered the deal. As you rightly pointed out the CAP wasn't renegotiated and wont be until at least 2014.
Incidentally Britain were totally isolated on the issue, and Cameron wasn't even there.
Kosh wrote:Quotes from an openly Euro-sceptic website don't really constitute proof of anything much. Wikipedia (not a definitive source admittedly) says this:
quality mate.
The original Guardian article I quoted makes it pretty clear what the position was going in to the summit. Apologies I couldn't find a related article in Socialist Worker. In fairness to him he pointed out the facts very well, not least how the CAP was disadvantageous to poorer countries. The rhetoric is all in the article. At the end of the summit he had given back some rebate under the cover of financing a bigger budget for a bigger Europe. As you rightly say contributions went up across the board which is clearly why the CAP %age of the budget went down. No concessions were made on the CAP (or other wider budgetary issues) whatsoever so Blair basically failed to deliver what he set out to achieve. Chirac and Shroeder said the CAP was not up for negotiation until 2013. It was Merkel's first summit and she brokered the deal. As you rightly pointed out the CAP wasn't renegotiated and wont be until at least 2014.
Incidentally Britain were totally isolated on the issue, and Cameron wasn't even there.
"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - Peter Sterling
Adam Pearson said not wrote:I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Staffs FC wrote:
cod'ead wrote:
Staffs FC wrote: How those extra billions would be handy right now.
Not nearly as handy as the £bns we threw at the banks
Couldn't agree more - way under regulated. Soft touch regulation in fact.
Not under regulated enough according to Gideon in opposition.
Why not just accept the fact that Cameron has been caught with his pants round his ankles and stop introducing straw men that bear no relevance to the matter in question?
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Wnidyone2012 wrote: So Gordon " Don't panic brown" is a testament to this is he?
Compared to Gideon "look to Ireland for an example of how it should be done" Osborne and David "we're all in it together" Cameron, yes. Those two would make Pavlov's dogs look statesmanlike
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
cod'ead wrote: Why not just accept the fact that Cameron has been caught with his pants round his ankles and stop introducing straw men that bear no relevance to the matter in question?
In your opinion.
The opinion of of the electorate is somewhat different.
Joined: Jul 31 2003 Posts: 36786 Location: Leafy Worcester, home of the Black Pear
Staffs FC wrote:
Kosh wrote:Quotes from an openly Euro-sceptic website don't really constitute proof of anything much. Wikipedia (not a definitive source admittedly) says this:
quality mate.
The original Guardian article I quoted makes it pretty clear what the position was going in to the summit. Apologies I couldn't find a related article in Socialist Worker. In fairness to him he pointed out the facts very well, not least how the CAP was disadvantageous to poorer countries. The rhetoric is all in the article. At the end of the summit he had given back some rebate under the cover of financing a bigger budget for a bigger Europe. As you rightly say contributions went up across the board which is clearly why the CAP %age of the budget went down. No concessions were made on the CAP (or other wider budgetary issues) whatsoever so Blair basically failed to deliver what he set out to achieve. Chirac and Shroeder said the CAP was not up for negotiation until 2013. It was Merkel's first summit and she brokered the deal. As you rightly pointed out the CAP wasn't renegotiated and wont be until at least 2014.
Incidentally Britain were totally isolated on the issue, and Cameron wasn't even there.
Really not sure why you think I'd be interested in anything from the Socialist Worker. Or is everyone who disagrees with Call Me Dave now a raving lefty in your book? Bit disappointed by that comment TBH.
I read the article. Your interpretation of it doesn't agree with mine. It's also pretty clear from various sources on the web that Blair's deal did, in fact, have a material impact on the %age of the EU budget that was spent on the CAP. Not because the CAP was renegotiated, but because of the new distribution of funding. Blair's deal was also given the green light by the guy that Call Me Dave has just appointed as his ambassador to the EU. Go figure.
I find it difficult to believe that you genuinely think that Cameron is as good a diplomat as Blair. The evidence so far is pretty comprehensively against it. No matter what you think about the EU - and I'm no fan of the current structure - being on the outside looking in is not in the UK's best interest.
Staffs FC wrote:
Kosh wrote:Quotes from an openly Euro-sceptic website don't really constitute proof of anything much. Wikipedia (not a definitive source admittedly) says this:
quality mate.
The original Guardian article I quoted makes it pretty clear what the position was going in to the summit. Apologies I couldn't find a related article in Socialist Worker. In fairness to him he pointed out the facts very well, not least how the CAP was disadvantageous to poorer countries. The rhetoric is all in the article. At the end of the summit he had given back some rebate under the cover of financing a bigger budget for a bigger Europe. As you rightly say contributions went up across the board which is clearly why the CAP %age of the budget went down. No concessions were made on the CAP (or other wider budgetary issues) whatsoever so Blair basically failed to deliver what he set out to achieve. Chirac and Shroeder said the CAP was not up for negotiation until 2013. It was Merkel's first summit and she brokered the deal. As you rightly pointed out the CAP wasn't renegotiated and wont be until at least 2014.
Incidentally Britain were totally isolated on the issue, and Cameron wasn't even there.
Really not sure why you think I'd be interested in anything from the Socialist Worker. Or is everyone who disagrees with Call Me Dave now a raving lefty in your book? Bit disappointed by that comment TBH.
I read the article. Your interpretation of it doesn't agree with mine. It's also pretty clear from various sources on the web that Blair's deal did, in fact, have a material impact on the %age of the EU budget that was spent on the CAP. Not because the CAP was renegotiated, but because of the new distribution of funding. Blair's deal was also given the green light by the guy that Call Me Dave has just appointed as his ambassador to the EU. Go figure.
I find it difficult to believe that you genuinely think that Cameron is as good a diplomat as Blair. The evidence so far is pretty comprehensively against it. No matter what you think about the EU - and I'm no fan of the current structure - being on the outside looking in is not in the UK's best interest.
Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One
Milliband is doing a limp, ineffective job in opposition.
as the article states: the last few weeks have seen Osborne deliver grim economic news, a public sector strike, a controversial EU veto, and now worsening unemployment figures...and yet its the Tory's that get the boost in the polls.
I bet their will be a big re-think on strategy for Labour, as their current 'tactics' just aren't working.
Milliband is doing a limp, ineffective job in opposition.
as the article states: the last few weeks have seen Osborne deliver grim economic news, a public sector strike, a controversial EU veto, and now worsening unemployment figures...and yet its the Tory's that get the boost in the polls.
I bet their will be a big re-think on strategy for Labour, as their current 'tactics' just aren't working.
Milliband is doing a limp, ineffective job in opposition.
as the article states: the last few weeks have seen Osborne deliver grim economic news, a public sector strike, a controversial EU veto, and now worsening unemployment figures...and yet its the Tory's that get the boost in the polls.
I bet their will be a big re-think on strategy for Labour, as their current 'tactics' just aren't working.
I guess it balances things out when the worst PM for an age is countered by the worst opposition leader in a similar period. Definitely looks like Labour chose the wrong brother.
Milliband is doing a limp, ineffective job in opposition.
as the article states: the last few weeks have seen Osborne deliver grim economic news, a public sector strike, a controversial EU veto, and now worsening unemployment figures...and yet its the Tory's that get the boost in the polls.
I bet their will be a big re-think on strategy for Labour, as their current 'tactics' just aren't working.
I guess it balances things out when the worst PM for an age is countered by the worst opposition leader in a similar period. Definitely looks like Labour chose the wrong brother.
Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One
Joined: Mar 08 2002 Posts: 26578 Location: On the set of NEDS...
Kosh wrote:Definitely looks like Labour chose the wrong brother.
Labour shouldn't have even been thinking about those two, they should have been putting all their efforts into persuading Alan Johnson his future lay as leader.
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quality mate.
