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 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:34 pm 
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Location: watching out for low flying geese
ComeOnYouWolves wrote:Times passed since the interview but he did clearly mention about going to SL. No mention of fast tracking or anything, just they hoped they could be in SL in a couple of years


You took your time didn't you ? :lol:






kcab sfrawdder



Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity

Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike




SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

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 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Hedgehog King wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
It might have done, had it been enforced.

They didnt spend it, so it made no difference.


I'm talking about pre-SL. The first Crusaders bankruptcy was supposedly due to debts run up chasing the SL dream. Crusaders clearly were breaking the NL salary cap even if they never got anywhere near the SL salary cap.

But they survived spending more than the NL cap, they played a Season of SL not spending the SL cap. Its simply speculation on your part as to whether the 'straw that broke the camels back' Was them spending over £300k on wages in the NLs rather than spending over £1m on wages in SL simply because of an arbitrary amount called 'the cap'.

In real terms they spent more in SL than they did in NL1, it is only your speculation (and pretty counter-intuitive speculation if we are honest) that says it cost Crusaders more to operate over a relatively small cap than it did under a massively larger cap.






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:14 pm 
International Chairman
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Joined: Mar 09 2004
Posts: 33944
Location: watching out for low flying geese
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
It might have done, had it been enforced.

They didnt spend it, so it made no difference.


I'm talking about pre-SL. The first Crusaders bankruptcy was supposedly due to debts run up chasing the SL dream. Crusaders clearly were breaking the NL salary cap even if they never got anywhere near the SL salary cap.

But they survived spending more than the NL cap, they played a Season of SL not spending the SL cap. Its simply speculation on your part as to whether the 'straw that broke the camels back' Was them spending over £300k on wages in the NLs rather than spending over £1m on wages in SL simply because of an arbitrary amount called 'the cap'.

In real terms they spent more in SL than they did in NL1, it is only your speculation (and pretty counter-intuitive speculation if we are honest) that says it cost Crusaders more to operate over a relatively small cap than it did under a massively larger cap.


But the overspend in the NL s made them look better than they were , it ' convinced ' the Emporers followers [ including the RFL it would seem ] into believing they were ready for SL , they weren't , as I and others who witnessed our matches at Brewery field tried to tell people , it just wasn't happening as it was being suggested at the time , I Sincerely hope they don't do it all again with somebody else






kcab sfrawdder



Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity

Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike




SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

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 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:21 pm 
Player Coach
First Team Player

Joined: Sep 01 2007
Posts: 1034
Location: Turin
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
It might have done, had it been enforced.

They didnt spend it, so it made no difference.


I'm talking about pre-SL. The first Crusaders bankruptcy was supposedly due to debts run up chasing the SL dream. Crusaders clearly were breaking the NL salary cap even if they never got anywhere near the SL salary cap.

But they survived spending more than the NL cap, they played a Season of SL not spending the SL cap. Its simply speculation on your part as to whether the 'straw that broke the camels back' Was them spending over £300k on wages in the NLs rather than spending over £1m on wages in SL simply because of an arbitrary amount called 'the cap'.

In real terms they spent more in SL than they did in NL1, it is only your speculation (and pretty counter-intuitive speculation if we are honest) that says it cost Crusaders more to operate over a relatively small cap than it did under a massively larger cap.


No, it isn't, it is a fact that Crusaders had accumulated CCJs before joining SL. This came out when the club went bust, if anyone had bothered to do any digging, it was on record at the time. If you are suggesting that a club accumulating CCJs can continue to survive indefinitely then I'd say that history shows otherwise.

It also a fact that despite the higher costs of operating in SL, it is a known that the revenues were also much higher so merely comparing salary caps is misleading. The difference in caps is 700k or so, remind me how much the Sky subsidy alone is? Not to mention the additional away fans.

Crusaders didn't even sign any particularly big name players when they joined SL. Their SL squad was pretty much the same team that "won" promotion plus a handful of Queensland league players. Their wage bill probably wasn't that much more in SL than it had been in NL1, at least for the first season.

Your definition of "counter-intuitive" seems to mean "focus solely on costs and ignore revenue", a rather odd idea and unlikely to trouble the world of finance.


Last edited by Hedgehog King on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:22 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Starbug wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
It might have done, had it been enforced.

They didnt spend it, so it made no difference.


I'm talking about pre-SL. The first Crusaders bankruptcy was supposedly due to debts run up chasing the SL dream. Crusaders clearly were breaking the NL salary cap even if they never got anywhere near the SL salary cap.

But they survived spending more than the NL cap, they played a Season of SL not spending the SL cap. Its simply speculation on your part as to whether the 'straw that broke the camels back' Was them spending over £300k on wages in the NLs rather than spending over £1m on wages in SL simply because of an arbitrary amount called 'the cap'.

In real terms they spent more in SL than they did in NL1, it is only your speculation (and pretty counter-intuitive speculation if we are honest) that says it cost Crusaders more to operate over a relatively small cap than it did under a massively larger cap.


But the overspend in the NL s made them look better than they were , it ' convinced ' the Emporers followers [ including the RFL it would seem ] into believing they were ready for SL , they weren't , as I and others who witnessed our matches at Brewery field tried to tell people , it just wasn't happening as it was being suggested at the time , I Sincerely hope they don't do it all again with somebody else
No it allowed them to put out a better side in the NLs, but nobody thought that side would be the side they would put out in SL and indeed it wasnt






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:26 pm 
Player Coach
First Team Player

Joined: Sep 01 2007
Posts: 1034
Location: Turin
SmokeyTA wrote:
Starbug wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
It might have done, had it been enforced.

They didnt spend it, so it made no difference.


I'm talking about pre-SL. The first Crusaders bankruptcy was supposedly due to debts run up chasing the SL dream. Crusaders clearly were breaking the NL salary cap even if they never got anywhere near the SL salary cap.

But they survived spending more than the NL cap, they played a Season of SL not spending the SL cap. Its simply speculation on your part as to whether the 'straw that broke the camels back' Was them spending over £300k on wages in the NLs rather than spending over £1m on wages in SL simply because of an arbitrary amount called 'the cap'.

In real terms they spent more in SL than they did in NL1, it is only your speculation (and pretty counter-intuitive speculation if we are honest) that says it cost Crusaders more to operate over a relatively small cap than it did under a massively larger cap.


But the overspend in the NL s made them look better than they were , it ' convinced ' the Emporers followers [ including the RFL it would seem ] into believing they were ready for SL , they weren't , as I and others who witnessed our matches at Brewery field tried to tell people , it just wasn't happening as it was being suggested at the time , I Sincerely hope they don't do it all again with somebody else
No it allowed them to put out a better side in the NLs, but nobody thought that side would be the side they would put out in SL and indeed it wasnt


It wasn't all that different. It's not like they went out and signed Reuben Wiki and Stacey Jones as Catalans did. They hired a few more Queensland league players and got rid of the Welsh players but there were no big name signings. The Aussie core of the team was the same lads that had been playing in NL2.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:27 pm 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mar 09 2004
Posts: 33944
Location: watching out for low flying geese
SmokeyTA wrote:
Starbug wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
SmokeyTA wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:
It might have done, had it been enforced.

They didnt spend it, so it made no difference.


I'm talking about pre-SL. The first Crusaders bankruptcy was supposedly due to debts run up chasing the SL dream. Crusaders clearly were breaking the NL salary cap even if they never got anywhere near the SL salary cap.

But they survived spending more than the NL cap, they played a Season of SL not spending the SL cap. Its simply speculation on your part as to whether the 'straw that broke the camels back' Was them spending over £300k on wages in the NLs rather than spending over £1m on wages in SL simply because of an arbitrary amount called 'the cap'.

In real terms they spent more in SL than they did in NL1, it is only your speculation (and pretty counter-intuitive speculation if we are honest) that says it cost Crusaders more to operate over a relatively small cap than it did under a massively larger cap.


But the overspend in the NL s made them look better than they were , it ' convinced ' the Emporers followers [ including the RFL it would seem ] into believing they were ready for SL , they weren't , as I and others who witnessed our matches at Brewery field tried to tell people , it just wasn't happening as it was being suggested at the time , I Sincerely hope they don't do it all again with somebody else
No it allowed them to put out a better side in the NLs, but nobody thought that side would be the side they would put out in SL and indeed it wasnt


It ' papered over the cracks ' in the business , it was off field that I and others were telling people , they struggled to cope when we visited , and as I have pointed out countless times , Mr Samuel was ' Hated ' by the local populace , hardly a recipe for success






kcab sfrawdder



Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity

Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike




SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:33 pm 
International Chairman
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User avatar

Joined: Mar 09 2004
Posts: 33944
Location: watching out for low flying geese
Hedgehog King wrote:[

It wasn't all that different. It's not like they went out and signed Reuben Wiki and Stacey Jones as Catalans did. They hired a few more Queensland league players and got rid of the Welsh players but there were no big name signings. The Aussie core of the team was the same lads that had been playing in NL2.


Correct , it makes you wonder if Mr Samuels was just getting his money back , or if he had been led to believe it was possible to make money out of running a SL club ?






kcab sfrawdder



Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity

Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike




SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:38 pm 
Player Coach
First Team Player

Joined: Sep 01 2007
Posts: 1034
Location: Turin
Starbug wrote:
Hedgehog King wrote:[

It wasn't all that different. It's not like they went out and signed Reuben Wiki and Stacey Jones as Catalans did. They hired a few more Queensland league players and got rid of the Welsh players but there were no big name signings. The Aussie core of the team was the same lads that had been playing in NL2.


Correct , it makes you wonder if Mr Samuels was just getting his money back , or if he had been led to believe it was possible to make money out of running a SL club ?


One can but speculate but it is interesting how many times, he has been "forced" to pull out of funding a sports club (four - Pontypridd FC [IIRC], Bridgend RFC, Celtic Warriors, Celtic Crusaders) that club disappeared or fell down the league and yet he still had enough cash to contemplate doing exactly the same again.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Saints in RL?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:41 pm 
Club Owner
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Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Hedgehog King wrote:No, it isn't, it is a fact that Crusaders had accumulated CCJs before joining SL. This came out when the club went bust, if anyone had bothered to do any digging, it was on record at the time. If you are suggesting that a club accumulating CCJs can continue to survive indefinitely then I'd say that history shows otherwise.
Id say clearly so, considering they spent MORE money after accumulating those CCJs than prior to it.

Quote:It also a fact that despite the higher costs of operating in SL, it is a known that the revenues were also much higher so merely comparing salary caps is misleading. The difference in caps is 700k or so, remind me how much the Sky subsidy alone is? Not to mention the additional away fans.
But now you are speculating an entire profit and loss account. The cap difference isnt £700k, it is £1.3m It is massively different. And that is the basis of the problem. You dont know that if Crusaders P+L had been better in the NL's it would have made their P+L viable in SL. That was the issue, the breaking of the cap is irrelevant. If the club wasnt viable in SL, then even if it had made profit in the NLs, it wasnt viable in SL.

Quote:Crusaders didn't even sign any particularly big name players when they joined SL. Their SL squad was pretty much the same team that "won" promotion plus a handful of Queensland league players. Their wage bill probably wasn't that much more in SL than it had been in NL1, at least for the first season.
Thats just incorrect, most of Crusaders squad was signed for SL, it was no where near 'pretty much the same' nor did they only add 'a handful of queensland league players'. A handful of queensland league players is what they had in the NL's. Their signings in 2009 included O'hara, Withers, Bryant, Peek, Chalk, Smith, Lupton, Chan, Tyrer. Mark Bryant had won the Grand Final the previous year, Withers, O'hara, Peek and chalk were all NRL first graders at the time, Lupton had played 25 SL games for Cas the year before, and Smith and Tyrer (at the time) were banging on the door for St Helens.






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

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