Joined: Nov 19 2005 Posts: 2359 Location: Marys Place, near the River, in Nebraska, Waitin' on A Sunny Day
DHM wrote:The real problem with the economy is that it's not just our economy that matters. If the US is in trouble we're in trouble. We managed to outperform the rest of Europe during the last decade but they weren't doing that bad themselves compared to now. Things have gone so t1t$ up in Europe that I believe there is little any Chancellor here can do to seriously revive the UK without a general world revivial (and in world I mean western europe and the US).
What Osbourne and the Tories need to do is to stop posturing and running around blaming unions and the last Labour government (and by definition all those who are in unions and who voted Labour) and to try and work their way into a second term without the LibDems (which seems to be their only objective as far as I can see), and help people feel better about how bad things are. They have to start by admitting that the recession was caused by global factors and only global factors changeing will really pull us out (they have difficulty doing this because they then can't blame Gordon for destroying the UK economy, which completely by chance went ar$e up at exactly the same time as the US and Euro-zone). Then they really have to start easing the pain of unemployment - not stigmatising people as slackers, workshy, spungers etc. and put a gag on dozy ***s like Edwina Currie. They're doing lots of little things to actually do the opposite, the other week it was sick notes - doctors are writing too many - how dare they! Workshy sicknote scroungers need dealing with.
Unfortunately once again we have a Tory government who are transparently working to usual Tory objectives. This government isn't serving us, it's serving itself. They owe as much to the people who didn't vote for them as to those that did. I'm sick of these people. They can't even support the people they claim to really be the friend of - business. My industry has simply gone down the toilet. They don't represent industry or business, they represent the guys at the top and the big shareholders, who will all be better off if costs are cut by moving to China or India.
Agree with all of this. Its nice to see people who can see right thorugh what they are trying to do unlike the DM readers et al who drink it all up and take it as fact. I got my knickers in a bit of a twist last night I must admit because for months I've had to listen to people call me a lazy, non deserving, workshy, benefit scrounger who drives around in a £37,000 BMW on the Motability Scheme paid by you the tax payer. On top of this my hard working husband who nobody gave two hoots about last month, all of a sudden yesterday became the scum of this country all because he stood up for what he believed in and took strike action. I'm sick of this government snide, sniping remarks about the honest, hardworking and vunerable people of this country. I'm sick of their we're all in this together attitude. From what I can see we, the ordinary citizens are in this together but exludes the millionaires, bankers and MP's, they're not in this at all.
Rant over, I need to keep my blood pressure at a reasonable level today
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan
It's inevitable in austere times. By making the poorest poor it frightens them and those a bit better off into working harder to get out of / not drop into that situation. Remember the fear of the work house?
It's inevitable in austere times. By making the poorest poor it frightens them and those a bit better off into working harder to get out of / not drop into that situation. Remember the fear of the work house?
Joined: Nov 19 2005 Posts: 2359 Location: Marys Place, near the River, in Nebraska, Waitin' on A Sunny Day
Dally wrote:It's inevitable in austere times. By making the poorest poor it frightens them and those a bit better off into working harder to get out of / not drop into that situation. Remember the fear of the work house?
Please tell me you're joking I'd like to know how I could have worked harder not to contract a disease? Oh, I fear the workhouse alright, I fear this will be the next step this government will take for us poor, sick urchins. I've researched the workhouses and asylums as part of my genelogy hobby and believe you me, we're not far off those opening again. I'm of no use to this government, I'm just a burden so in the workhouse I'll go
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Hull White Star wrote:Agree with all of this. Its nice to see people who can see right thorugh what they are trying to do unlike the DM readers et al who drink it all up and take it as fact. I got my knickers in a bit of a twist last night I must admit because for months I've had to listen to people call me a lazy, non deserving, workshy, benefit scrounger who drives around in a £37,000 BMW on the Motability Scheme paid by you the tax payer. On top of this my hard working husband who nobody gave two hoots about last month, all of a sudden yesterday became the scum of this country all because he stood up for what he believed in and took strike action. I'm sick of this government snide, sniping remarks about the honest, hardworking and vunerable people of this country. I'm sick of their we're all in this together attitude. From what I can see we, the ordinary citizens are in this together but exludes the millionaires, bankers and MP's, they're not in this at all.
Rant over, I need to keep my blood pressure at a reasonable level today
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: Oct 19 2003 Posts: 17898 Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
Hull White Star wrote:Agree with all of this. Its nice to see people who can see right thorugh what they are trying to do unlike the DM readers et al who drink it all up and take it as fact. I got my knickers in a bit of a twist last night I must admit because for months I've had to listen to people call me a lazy, non deserving, workshy, benefit scrounger who drives around in a £37,000 BMW on the Motability Scheme paid by you the tax payer. On top of this my hard working husband who nobody gave two hoots about last month, all of a sudden yesterday became the scum of this country all because he stood up for what he believed in and took strike action. I'm sick of this government snide, sniping remarks about the honest, hardworking and vunerable people of this country. I'm sick of their we're all in this together attitude. From what I can see we, the ordinary citizens are in this together but exludes the millionaires, bankers and MP's, they're not in this at all.
Rant over, I need to keep my blood pressure at a reasonable level today
You mean your hard working husband, who happens to work in a job that the media and government (and therefore the gullible public) think is not needed, takes a day off to protest about his, and others, treatment by his employer, is suddenly seen as an essential worker and how dare he take the day off.
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Chris28 wrote:You mean your hard working husband, who happens to work in a job that the media and government (and therefore the gullible public) think is not needed, takes a day off to protest about his, and others, treatment by his employer, is suddenly seen as an essential worker and how dare he take the day off.
Him?
You mean the one that should taken out, put against a wall, and shot in front of his family?
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Urmston Wire wrote:And the reasons that the banks caused the recession itself is because they were under-regulated because nobody cared as long as money came into the coffers.
Not this tired old argument again. It's illegal to kill people but it doesn't stop people doing it. The reason the banks caused the recession is because of what they actually did not because they were not prevented form doing it!
If they had not been so stupid as to deal in these ridiculous junk assets and other dubious financial instruments we would not be where we are today.
The idea it was regulatory failing is a joke. These are banks who are supposed to be the cornerstone of the financial world not a bunch of crooks and gamblers. As is usually the case regulation follows some sort of disaster and it was completely unrealistic to expect the likes of the FSA to have the resources to keep tabs on the weird financial instruments that were being dreamt up just about every week.
Even if they could that assumes this was UK thing and it clearly wasn't. Please tell us how Brown could have regulated the US and other countries banks? To coin a phrase, they were all in it together!
Quote:The problem with Britain is that we expect the best possible public services but low taxes.
I don't disagree with that but my argument is the tax burden is biased onto the individual and VAT is regressive. I could not believe it a while back when I think it was Barclay's chairman who said we contribute £2.4bn in tax (or a similar figure) when what he was referring to was the tax his employees paid on the wages Barclay's paid them NOT what Barclays paid in corporation tax.
The 15bn figure is for tax evasion not uncollected taxes such as VAT. That is something that is as illegal as benefit fraud but costs the country 10 times as much.
Urmston Wire wrote:And the reasons that the banks caused the recession itself is because they were under-regulated because nobody cared as long as money came into the coffers.
Not this tired old argument again. It's illegal to kill people but it doesn't stop people doing it. The reason the banks caused the recession is because of what they actually did not because they were not prevented form doing it!
If they had not been so stupid as to deal in these ridiculous junk assets and other dubious financial instruments we would not be where we are today.
The idea it was regulatory failing is a joke. These are banks who are supposed to be the cornerstone of the financial world not a bunch of crooks and gamblers. As is usually the case regulation follows some sort of disaster and it was completely unrealistic to expect the likes of the FSA to have the resources to keep tabs on the weird financial instruments that were being dreamt up just about every week.
Even if they could that assumes this was UK thing and it clearly wasn't. Please tell us how Brown could have regulated the US and other countries banks? To coin a phrase, they were all in it together!
Quote:The problem with Britain is that we expect the best possible public services but low taxes.
I don't disagree with that but my argument is the tax burden is biased onto the individual and VAT is regressive. I could not believe it a while back when I think it was Barclay's chairman who said we contribute £2.4bn in tax (or a similar figure) when what he was referring to was the tax his employees paid on the wages Barclay's paid them NOT what Barclays paid in corporation tax.
The 15bn figure is for tax evasion not uncollected taxes such as VAT. That is something that is as illegal as benefit fraud but costs the country 10 times as much.
Joined: Oct 19 2003 Posts: 17898 Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
DaveO wrote:I could not believe it a while back when I think it was Barclay's chairman who said we contribute £2.4bn in tax (or a similar figure) when what he was referring to was the tax his employees paid on the wages Barclay's paid them NOT what Barclays paid in corporation tax.
That can't be right though, because what you're saying there is that a businessman doesn't know what he's talking about, and as we all know, businessmen are experts in everything.
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