Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18066 Location: On the road
Mintball wrote:And I'm also fairly sure that they won't have objected too much to the proposition of free labour.
As I've mentioned before, the government has effectively been advertising for big businesses (Unilever & McDonalds, for starters) in its 'health advice' - which came only a few months after the government invited the same companies to discuss public health.
These are also some of the same (very) big businesses that promised to create the jobs that would remove the effects of the cuts. They are not doing this.
Perhaps one should look at corporate donations to the Conservative Party ... I do suspect such things a entirely mutual arrangement based, not least, on ideology.
That doesn't entitle them (or any other company) to free labour. They pay lots of tax because they make millions and millions in profit - although not enough, according to the City earlier this year, which isn't happy with Tesco's growth. Which does raise a different question about why we need continued growth.
This is essentially like a tax break: yet every one of the FTSE 100 companies is already using tax havens, so why do big companies need further hand outs (in effect) from government? They're not poor. They're not suffering.
If we seriously think that some claimants might benefit from some form of 'work experience', then I would far rather see people do things like working for a spell with elderly patients in a hospital. It is more socially productive - potentially on both sides. But I am very wary of forcing people into working for their benefits - not least because it assumes that we have a nation of skivvers. Ys, some people take the proverbial. But the majority of people who are out of work do not. They want to work. They want to earn a living. They want to get a proper wage with all that means. There is a very causal tendency among many people to fall into the trap of assuming a nation of the workshy. A little as people assume a nation of people dodging work because they're on the sick - whereas the facts (and the personal stories) tell a different story - for which you can see the relevant thread on this forum.
I don't think any big business would categorically say it would - regardless of circumstances - create unnecessary jobs. What the government intimated was it expected the private sector to pick up the people who were to be made redundant in the public sector. It said it would create an environment where business could flourish - has that happened!! SME's were supposed to have access to funds for capital projects and operating cash flow - has that happened? In the same breath the government say growth will be virtually non-existent - how do they expect the private sector to absorb these jobs?
I agree regarding your last point to a certain degree. Is your view that those on the dole should be doing something for their money if so then community projects is the correct use of this resource. If the idea is these people get experience that might lead to a job then perhaps putting them into a sector where it is generally agreed there will be less opportunities is perhaps not the best strategy.
On donations, you think it is OK for unions to dictate the policies of the labour party - Ed got the top job because the unions decided that, but its not OK for the Tories to do the same?
Tax collection is a careful balance - if you close all the loop holes you would most likely reduce the total tax take. Companies will always look to reduce their tax bill - it frees up money for capital investment, dividends - which are taxable etc. If I could find a way of paying less tax I would and I suggest so would you.
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Joined: Feb 18 2006 Posts: 18610 Location: Somewhere in Bonny Donny (Twinned with Krakatoa in 1883).
Tax avoidance to the point of evasion is not just limited to some big businesses. In my experience, lots of one-man-band self employed type businesses have turned income tax and VAT (if they qualify at all) evasion into an art form whenever cash is involved. Plus not declaring the full cost of jobs or even omitting some, plus all manner of expenses concerned with domestic spending are often put against their business as long as it looks about right in the accounts. Petrol/diesel for instance. Then there is self-assessment. Thank goodness for employees and PAYE and Corporation Tax and businesses/companies that keep proper records.
At least they are a little more transparent.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Sal Paradise wrote:In the last set of published accounts Y/E 26/2/11 the company paid 864m in corporation tax add to that the employers NI which will be between 750m-1bn I would suggest they are making a substantial contribution to the tax revenues of this country.
Obviously they don't count in you and your lady's consideration of who are exactly the tax payers!!
As usual these simple facts are lost in your big company bashing crusade!!
So it's all OK because they pay some tax?
They should be paying all of their tax liabilities, not employing complicated tax vehicles to cheat the exchequer and by extension, cheat the poorest and most vulnerable in our society.
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Sal Paradise wrote:On donations, you think it is OK for unions to dictate the policies of the labour party - Ed got the top job because the unions decided that, but its not OK for the Tories to do the same?
Do you drive a Hillman Avenger?
We've moved on quite a way since 1972
Sal Paradise wrote:Tax collection is a careful balance - if you close all the loop holes you would most likely reduce the total tax take. Companies will always look to reduce their tax bill - it frees up money for capital investment, dividends - which are taxable etc. If I could find a way of paying less tax I would and I suggest so would you.
Not that load of old fanny again?
So, it's OK to avoid paying taxes, if you free up money for capital investment? Baloney, they should pay the taxes due, simple as. I would relish handing over £250 millions to HMRC every year because it would mean I'd be trousering at least that amount
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18066 Location: On the road
cod'ead wrote:So it's all OK because they pay some tax?
They should be paying all of their tax liabilities, not employing complicated tax vehicles to cheat the exchequer and by extension, cheat the poorest and most vulnerable in our society.
How much tax did you pay last year?
They are paying a huge amount of taxation - they are not cheating the exchequer they are simple using the loop holes available in the law. Close the loop holes don't blame companies from using the loop holes!! To say they are cheating the poorest in society is a bit rich - their contributions to tax revenue is massive - perhaps if the public sector weren't quite so wasteful then there would be more of the Tesco tax revenue for poorest and most vulnerable!!
I bet your accountant ensures you pay the maximum you can in tax!! it is this hypocritical stance that loses you what little credibility you have.
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18066 Location: On the road
cod'ead wrote:Do you drive a Hillman Avenger?
We've moved on quite a way since 1972
Not that load of old fanny again?
So, it's OK to avoid paying taxes, if you free up money for capital investment? Baloney, they should pay the taxes due, simple as. I would relish handing over £250 millions to HMRC every year because it would mean I'd be trousering at least that amount
You really cannot be this stupid!! So answer a few basic questions - maybe you can get a Graham to hold your hand!!
1. So how did Ed Milliband get elected as leader of the labour party? 2. What taxes are Tescos witholding against the laws set out!! 3. If you increased fuel duty by 50p a litre do you think you tax take would go up or down!!
Your idea that you can just tax to the hilt and everyone will simply comply is nieve beyond belief - if I had a company the last thing I would want to do is give it to the government so they can waste a good majority in services with union dictated working conditions. I would much rather spend the money on my own business where it will get much better value.
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 14302 Location: On the Death Star Awaiting Luke.
Sal Paradise wrote:They are not cheating the exchequer they are simple using the loop holes available in the law. .
You do know it is one or the other dont you? They are either avoiding paying the right amount of tax (cheating the exchequer and using loop holes) or they arn't (Paying all the tax they are due to pay and not using loop holes) . Which one is it?
Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 14302 Location: On the Death Star Awaiting Luke.
Sal Paradise wrote:Your idea that you can just tax to the hilt and everyone will simply comply is nieve beyond belief
Did you miss the increase in VAT as well as the widening of what it can be added to? Did you miss the anouncement that 9p (Yes 9p) will be added to fuel duty by Aug 2012?
The poorest where given a tax break but add all that to the pot and they are really either no better off or it is hardly worth noticing.
Whilst the rest are being screwed to the wall.
Sal Paradise wrote:If I had a company the last thing I would want to do is give it to the government so they can waste a good majority in services with union dictated working conditions.
Ah so we are back to your idea that workers should just shut up and work with no recourse if they are being wronged by their employer. This will hardly come as a shock as you are on a diffrent planet most of the rest of us.
All in it together unless you own big buisiness or are the CEO of a big company or work for the government.
Sal Paradise wrote: You really cannot be this stupid!!
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