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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:45 am 
Player Coach
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Joined: Oct 17 2005
Posts: 490
Location: Way Out There, kao lanta
Conroy wrote:The majority of sides that cam up went straight back down and did it with poor overseas players and by getting into financial trouble as has been said.


Complete nonsense. Could you put some factual evidence on this or are you just trying to create a reaction.

Quote:A 3 year franchise system gives every club the chance to improve on what they have and keep their place. Wigan for example went from a Grade B to a Grade A because we now earn the right amount of revenue which we never did due to our Marketing contract with JJB.


Doubt it was little to do with the JJB contract more to do with increased revenues in general and reduced costs and signing of new long term lease at the JJB.

Quote: Widnes improved their licence and so they got in. Crusaders went the other way and it's au revoir to them.


Since the last bid Widnes have been performing on the pitch to a lower standard that is part of the licensing guidelines and thus part of their bid. The only thing that stopped Widnes before was financial irregularities with the previous application they had new owner that placed guarantees so in reality at the time of the current bid it was at best no better than the reality of the previous bid. Simple case the RFL did not want to take a risk on Widnes.

Quote:I do think however that Halifax should have been in for Wakefield. Wakefield have gone into admin which is against the licence rules, their ground is a mess, they won't have a new one by the end of 2014 and they don't really offer THAT much on the field.


It is not against licence rules since there are no real rules. Crusaders were in a far worse position financially, changed club name halfway through their licence, changed location and performed worse on the pitch than Wakefield yet they were going to get a licence.

Quote: They finished 5th in 2009 but instead of building then finished 11th and this season will probably finish 13th. Halifax have reached two GF's winning one and improved their stadium to the point that SL rugby has been played there.


What evidence is there that Halifax will have a SL quality squad for next season?

Quote:Whilst not everything should be made public, I think the RFL need to make this public so that each and every RL fan knows what is needed to stay/get in SL because apparently it isn't what we thought it was.


What has it got to do with RL fans? Are the fans making and financing the bids? Bids are between the RFL and the clubs you can ask the clubs for the details of their bids not the responsibility of the RFL to divulge confidential information. The RFL clearly adjust/ignore the conditions to suit the vision they have for the ESL, months ago they all but guaranteed Harlequins a licence without the bid being submitted for all they knew they could have been on the verge of collapse.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:58 am 
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Conroy wrote:Well maybe you didn't get into any financial trouble, but you're stay wasn't exactly the best was it? Just to remind you:

- Team P W D L F A Diff Pts
1 St Helens 28 24 1 3 1028 537 +491 47
2 Leeds Rhinos 28 22 0 6 1152 505 +647 44
3 Bradford Bulls 28 18 1 9 1038 684 +354 37
4 Warrington Wolves 28 18 0 10 792 702 +90 36
5 Hull FC 28 16 2 10 756 670 +86 32
6 London Broncos 28 13 2 13 800 718 +82 28
7 Wigan Warriors 28 14 0 14 698 718 -20 28
8 Huddersfield Giants 28 12 0 16 742 791 -49 24
9 Salford City Reds 28 11 0 17 549 732 -183 22
10 Wakefield Wildcats 28 10 0 18 716 999 -283 20
11 Widnes Vikings 28 6 1 21 568 1048 -480 13
12 Leigh Centurions 28 2 1 25 445 1210 -765 5

Halifax finished on 0 points after going bust and were relegated. It took them a few years to get back to anything solid. Cas came up and went straight back. Relegated twice in 3 years. Salford yo-yo'd and Hudds were in a mess when they went down IIRC.

Widnes were controversially left out in 2009, but have got their house in order since and deserve their place. Leigh can now begin to get theirs in place ready for 2014. If they don't manage it, they don't deserve it.


Yes, Halifax went bust whilst in super league, not because we got relegated.

And just who was it that was overseeing this shambolic period in our history.....................

Are you worried about the future of our game now?






Oh hali hali hali hali halifax

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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:42 am 
Club Owner
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Posts: 2874
Location: Sometimes Workington, Sometimes Warrington, Often on the M6
Big Graeme wrote:The same way we break even...

Widnes, Workington, Doncaster will do for a start.


Workington's situation was entirely different to any of the others. You probably won't believe it, but we were actually solvent while in SL as the accounts of the time show.

The thing that did for Town was that we had players on 2-3 year contracts on SL sized wages. After we were relegated (sacrificed for Paris) we were stuck with these contracts with no income to pay them.

There were no 'null and void' clauses following relegation then, nor were there any parachute payments. Of the debt that took Town under, more than 80% of it was for future contract liabilities to players. Unlike clubs who were relegated later, we were not allowed to walk away from those contracts. We were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

After this happened to Town, and then at a lesser extent Oldham, the RFL moved to bring in things to prevent it such as making SL playing contracts void if a club was relegated and instigating parachute payments for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:12 am 
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Up the Dons wrote:You kinda went for broke that year anyway...Paul Mansson was on a big contract for example....but hey you went for it and guess what...you got promoted and didn't go bust...wow it can be done


Sorry to split hairs but Paul Mansson didn't play for us in 06. He left the season before we got promoted and I know we didn't go for broke that season as Hudgell himself told me that promotion would damage the club and would be much better the next year.






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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:37 am 
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Derwent wrote:Workington's situation was entirely different to any of the others. You probably won't believe it, but we were actually solvent while in SL as the accounts of the time show.

The thing that did for Town was that we had players on 2-3 year contracts on SL sized wages. After we were relegated (sacrificed for Paris) we were stuck with these contracts with no income to pay them.

There were no 'null and void' clauses following relegation then, nor were there any parachute payments. Of the debt that took Town under, more than 80% of it was for future contract liabilities to players. Unlike clubs who were relegated later, we were not allowed to walk away from those contracts. We were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

After this happened to Town, and then at a lesser extent Oldham, the RFL moved to bring in things to prevent it such as making SL playing contracts void if a club was relegated and instigating parachute payments for a while.



Now now Derwent , dont you go pointing out the truth :wink:






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SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
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Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:39 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
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Derwent wrote:Workington's situation was entirely different to any of the others.


Thing is every team says that, at the end of the day a season in SL set the team back years.






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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:03 am 
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Big Graeme wrote:Thing is every team says that, at the end of the day a season in SL set the team back years.


Yes because at that time the people in charge did not consider the possibility of something going wrong , something it seems the current administration also dont ever seem to consider , how many times do ' loopholes ' appear that should have been considered , and then the RFL and the sport end up with egg on their faces again

My inquiry about the make up of the Championships next season is an example , we have teams playing in Championship 1 , with 5/6 games left not knowing how many if any propmotion places are up for grabs , it is quite ridiculous






kcab sfrawdder



Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity

Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike




SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:05 am 
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Posts: 12006
freddies wig wrote:Yes, Halifax went bust whilst in super league, not because we got relegated.

And just who was it that was overseeing this shambolic period in our history.....................

Are you worried about the future of our game now?


I know and thats why I said went bust and were relegated not went bust due to being relegated.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:37 am 
International Chairman
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Joined: Mar 09 2004
Posts: 33944
Location: watching out for low flying geese
Conroy wrote:I know and thats why I said went bust and were relegated not went bust due to being relegated.


So at least you got one right :wink:






kcab sfrawdder



Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity

Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike




SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

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 Post subject: Re: Stop this self destruction before its too late
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:55 am 
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Starbug wrote:My inquiry about the make up of the Championships next season is an example , we have teams playing in Championship 1 , with 5/6 games left not knowing how many if any propmotion places are up for grabs , it is quite ridiculous


By the same logic you should be in favour of franchising because it does allow teams to plan or are you saying that being allowed to plan should only be for the teams in the championship? I agree that it's silly with teams not knowing how many places are available however I also believe the three year franchising plan has been a step in the right direction. I would go a step further though and seek to extend that three years to four with a view to making it five years.






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