Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
sandy wrote:personally think thats a load of Edit-RW, you seem much more credible when your talking about balance sheets than you ever do when you try the rugby theories
Harsh. It's a theory, though. Would you say, for example, that Morgan's overt enthusiasm is undimmed this season? That he wasn't hacked off about Mason? That the standard of performance he is getting from the resources at his disposal is equal to what it was in 2009? OK then.
Joined: Apr 06 2006 Posts: 1103 Location: The Heart of East Hull
Mrs Barista wrote:Harsh. It's a theory, though. Would you say, for example, that Morgan's overt enthusiasm is undimmed this season? That he wasn't hacked off about Mason? That the standard of performance he is getting from the resources at his disposal is equal to what it was in 2009? OK then.
I think you're wrong in a number of ways in your viewing rovers from the outside, there's no doubt that we're not the side we were last year but there are a number of reasons for that in my opinion, I don't think you've got anywhere near it though to be honest. I think you're in danger of judging our coach and board by the standards you're used to.
Joined: May 25 2008 Posts: 282 Location: East Hull
what Edit-RW me off if some players are just undropable and are too complacent knowing they will be picked however they play. IMO Cook has played well and deserved to keep his place over Newton, it was up to Newton to win his place back. I would be vexed off knowing that how good i do i would be dropped as soon as someone is fit.
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
sandy wrote:I think you're wrong in a number of ways in your viewing rovers from the outside, there's no doubt that we're not the side we were last year but there are a number of reasons for that in my opinion, I don't think you've got anywhere near it though to be honest. I think you're in danger of judging our coach and board by the standards you're used to.
Let's hear your thoughts then. Don't think I've hypothesised anything outrageous tbh. As for judging your board unfairly, the only point I mentioned about the board was that IMO Mason was their signing rather than Morgan's pro active selection. Mason was far less a Morganesque signing than Green, for example, don't you agree?
Joined: Apr 06 2006 Posts: 1103 Location: The Heart of East Hull
Mrs Barista wrote:This is not intended as trolling, but an observation. Morgan has done an outstanding job at Rovers. His use in particular of overseas players has been excellent and particularly in the early days his tactical insight to work over opposition teams was really impressive. He's made some hard calls to offload players with time left on their contracts. I think he's not seen eye to eye with the board on a few key issues, though, being the retention of Cooke after their first big fall-out, but more recently the Mason debacle. IMO Mason was a signing driven not by the coach but by the commercial department, and Morgan gives the impression he likes to be in absolute control of his squad. This season his overt energy and commitment seem a notch or two lower than in previous seasons. I think the two points are linked. To use a Peter Sharpism, he seems to have lost his mojo a bit. If I were a Rovers fan, I'd be disappointed, but reasonably ambivalent about losing Morgan as he's probably ready for a new challenge, but would be more concerned about who, if anyone, could end up following him playerwise. Given that his only 2 signings so far are 2011's most cited scapegoats, Netherton and Hodgson, maybe he's going early on an Agent Morgan mission for Wigan/Cas/whoever he's linked with next.
right then since you asked, first of all morgan doesn't make hard calls over releasing players, he has no sentiment about it whatsoever and views all players when resigning or releasing on a purely useful to his plan basis.
his signing of players has been no better or worse than any other coach imho, he's signed players of the callibre of grand final winners galea and newton who have been brilliant and he has had flops such as garrett crossman, he's also signed many players who fall in between. the thing is regardless who you're signing, all signings have an element of risk, even the best players might not settle for one reason or another, too many people forget this.
I take your point cooke and mason do not appear to be morgan's choice, but anybody who knows them will tell you morgan and hudgell work hand in glove with each other, tell me which coach in superleague signs only the players he wants, there is always compromises between board and coach particularly with the salary cap to consider.
You also talk about his tactical insight, well I've watched every rovers game in superleague and sure enough there were occassions when we have done a job on the opposition and plenty of times when our gameplan has come up short particularly against Hudersfield! possibly one of the reasons why we are struggling at the moment arguably could be the top sides have moved on to a "St helensesque" style of play whilst our teams are still trying to grind out results on the back of field position.
As for players moving on if morgan goes, well contracts dictate who goes and who stays and a few of our best are signed on for next year already.
Now I'm not one of those bagging morgan or calling for his head, our poor away form this year (and it is just the away form) could be due to losing our best playmaker and best forward for a long period, a limited game plan, limited recruitment last season due to the mason big splash signing or a combination of all 3. What I would say is in the time morgan has been coaching us he has earned the right to have 1 poor season. As his contract is up at the end of next season he will know more than most that can't carry on next season. personally I've found it a disappointing season but I'm not worried and its not over yet.
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
sandy wrote:right then since you asked, first of all morgan doesn't make hard calls over releasing players, he has no sentiment about it whatsoever and views all players when resigning or releasing on a purely useful to his plan basis.
his signing of players has been no better or worse than any other coach imho, he's signed players of the callibre of grand final winners galea and newton who have been brilliant and he has had flops such as garrett crossman, he's also signed many players who fall in between. the thing is regardless who you're signing, all signings have an element of risk, even the best players might not settle for one reason or another, too many people forget this.
I take your point cooke and mason do not appear to be morgan's choice, but anybody who knows them will tell you morgan and hudgell work hand in glove with each other, tell me which coach in superleague signs only the players he wants, there is always compromises between board and coach particularly with the salary cap to consider.
You also talk about his tactical insight, well I've watched every rovers game in superleague and sure enough there were occassions when we have done a job on the opposition and plenty of times when our gameplan has come up short particularly against Hudersfield! possibly one of the reasons why we are struggling at the moment arguably could be the top sides have moved on to a "St helensesque" style of play whilst our teams are still trying to grind out results on the back of field position.
As for players moving on if morgan goes, well contracts dictate who goes and who stays and a few of our best are signed on for next year already.
Now I'm not one of those bagging morgan or calling for his head, our poor away form this year (and it is just the away form) could be due to losing our best playmaker and best forward for a long period, a limited game plan, limited recruitment last season due to the mason big splash signing or a combination of all 3. What I would say is in the time morgan has been coaching us he has earned the right to have 1 poor season. As his contract is up at the end of next season he will know more than most that can't carry on next season. personally I've found it a disappointing season but I'm not worried and its not over yet.
That's me told, then. Good points although I wasn't suggesting players would follow him if he went unless they were OOC. As you say, Newton, Green, Dobson, Clinton, Fox, Webster etc all under contract so unlikely to be major movement on big salary players in the short term. I would imagine Morgan will see out his contract anyway, but he just seems a bit jaded to me.
Joined: Apr 06 2006 Posts: 1103 Location: The Heart of East Hull
Mrs Barista wrote:That's me told, then. Good points although I wasn't suggesting players would follow him if he went unless they were OOC. As you say, Newton, Green, Dobson, Clinton, Fox, Webster etc all under contract so unlikely to be major movement on big salary players in the short term. I would imagine Morgan will see out his contract anyway, but he just seems a bit jaded to me.
well you did ask, , if we do what at the moment looks impossible and win at saints in the cup and who knows what will happen by the time the next round is here, I suspect you'll see a lot more vitality in the rovers camp all round!
Mrs Barista wrote:That's me told, then. Good points although I wasn't suggesting players would follow him if he went unless they were OOC. As you say, Newton, Green, Dobson, Clinton, Fox, Webster etc all under contract so unlikely to be major movement on big salary players in the short term. I would imagine Morgan will see out his contract anyway, but he just seems a bit jaded to me.
You make a valid point about him seeming jaded and the squad look down, but in all fairness all teams in a bad run have a coach who seems jaded and a squad who seem down. For instance when we got on top in the derby, the spark seemed to come back, the team looked together and Morgan seemed very up beat.
I agree with your earlier point about Mason, JM doesn;t seem to deal with 'difficult' players and situations very well, gets very short with interviewers and it seems like a hassle he could do without. I does become a major distraction to him and ultimately the squad.
The coach is not the problem, the board is not the problem, off the field is not the problem, the support is not the problem.
Its all about the players....... They seem to be unable or unwilling to follow basic instructions and Dobson is one of them. I was at the last training session before the Leeds game and I can tell you the plan was to kick early and defend the line quickly. It was simple. Justin will be here for another 2 years and I hope he is. I understand a list has been drawn up of players he wants to retain and a list of targets.
Lets hope with the ground improvements and more good news for the south stand we have a team next season that will WIN!
Peter Gentle was rejected by Hull KR as their new head coach due to his lack of ambition.
Joined: Sep 18 2005 Posts: 8742 Location: 2017 City of Culture
pugwash pal wrote: I was at the last training session before the Leeds game and I can tell you the plan was to kick early and defend the line quickly. It was simple.
Simple but ineffective.
In the 1st half Dobson kicked on 3rd/4th tackle on at least 6 occasions, including once slipping badly on contact. The chase was ok, but we couldn't contain Leeds in their own 20 due to losing the contact in virtually all the tackles. Nothing to do with Dobson not following the gameplan at all. Leeds were just too strong, to fast, and too willing to give the ball some air despite the conditions, 3 things Rovers seem incapable of this season.
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