Joined: Jan 08 2006 Posts: 2192 Location: Somewhere in the Stratosphere.
berrigans bitch wrote:OK...your being very selective here to what you respond to..what about your replying regarding what the victim had done ? you clearly implied the attack was warranted. His name is Ben Caockayne, interesting that you still choose to use his pet nabless!
Where have I implied it was either warranted or aceptable? I said it had been dealt with by the courts, there you go with that reading difficulty again! Seems to be spreading to your writing skills now too, Charlies name is actully Cockayne not Caockayne, maybe time for a bit of a chill out It's starting to get to you now!
berrigans bitch wrote:You consider me telling him his values & morals are in the gutter abuse ?
This is an emotive topic and if people are going to defend a racist thug they are going to get challenged by others. I actually think Seventies Red made some good valid points in his post and he/she has clearly got some life experience, however it fell down for me when he only considered Bens actions as misdemenours, Ben committed a very serious crime and clearly did not learn from it.
I too find Bens actions very disturbing, more so the racist thing than the assault charge. The assault thing will have had mitigating circumstances, provocation, alcohol, history etc and although not excusable smelly stuff sometimes happens. The courts dealt with this, the club dealt with it, we moved on, Ben seemed to grow up a bit and in all fairness this was an isolated incident.
The racism is a bit different, its his views and very difficult to either justify or defend himself from. As I said the club IMO made an error by dealing with it internally and not doing the right thing.
This thread has unfortunately turned into a slagging fest that seems to be based on symantics, most are almost agreeing and in no way defending the indefensible. Shame really as it could be a reasoned debate that seem so few and far between on here.
Joined: Jan 08 2006 Posts: 2192 Location: Somewhere in the Stratosphere.
barham red wrote:I too find Bens actions very disturbing, more so the racist thing than the assault charge. The assault thing will have had mitigating circumstances, provocation, alcohol, history etc and although not excusable smelly stuff sometimes happens. The courts dealt with this, the club dealt with it, we moved on, Ben seemed to grow up a bit and in all fairness this was an isolated incident.
The racism is a bit different, its his views and very difficult to either justify or defend himself from. As I said the club IMO made an error by dealing with it internally and not doing the right thing.
This thread has unfortunately turned into a slagging fest that seems to be based on symantics, most are almost agreeing and in no way defending the indefensible. Shame really as it could be a reasoned debate that seem so few and far between on here.
The thing with the racist comments is there was no prosecution, hence no sentence. I said on a previous thread, I believe if he'd commited the offenses in the other order, ie been warned for the racism, then commited the more serious (in the eyes of the law) assault the club would have been left with no choice but to get rid. I don't think they will get rid of him now as the time to do so, was at the time the Facebook story broke. Once he'd played again any damage, real or perceived, to the clubs reputation had been done. If the earlier post regarding him being offered a contract on reduced terms is accurate it may be the club wanting a return on the loyalty they've shown him, or maybe the opening offer in the haggling process. Either way I'm quite prepared to stand by whatever decision they make, and any player that pulls on a Rovers shirt will get my support, as long as they put the effort in, which he surely does. However if the board do decide not to resign him because of his track record, neither he or the fans can have any complaints, and I for one would respect their decision.
This was not acceptable. Whether his subsequent punishment was sufficient (or even excessive), is a subjective judgement, on which people can hold a range of views without their integrity being in question.
We've done all this before, of course.
EL CAMO wrote:Would it be permitted for someone to pm me what this racial slur actually was? As in, the exact wording?
This was not acceptable. Whether his subsequent punishment was sufficient (or even excessive), is a subjective judgement, on which people can hold a range of views without their integrity being in question.
We've done all this before, of course.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: Mar 25 2008 Posts: 3679 Location: God's county
To me then, that is not a racial tirade. I don't believe that saying what he did makes him necessarily a racist. Let's face it, Ben is hardly the wisest head and if you show me someone who claims that anyone who has ever used that word is a racist, I'll show you a liar.
What immortal hand or eye, Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?
Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 14302 Location: On the Death Star Awaiting Luke.
berrigans bitch wrote:Condeming a racist thug is not adopting a holier than thou attitude...
But laying into anyone who dares to disagree with you as you have done in this thread is. TBH it doesn't matter if you like it or not but diving off the deep end like you have done and using the whole 'I was brought up on North Hull' as some kind of badge of honour is quite frankly cringeworthy. Oh and BTW I lived in Illthorpe and Clanthorpe, My mother still lives down Clanthorpe and I have infact been to see her today. I would never use that as an excuse for abuse though.
Joined: Sep 01 2006 Posts: 5139 Location: Wall Street
Roverswall wrote:But laying into anyone who dares to disagree with you as you have done in this thread is. TBH it doesn't matter if you like it or not but diving off the deep end like you have done and using the whole 'I was brought up on North Hull' as some kind of badge of honour is quite frankly cringeworthy. Oh and BTW I lived in Illthorpe and Clanthorpe, My mother still lives down Clanthorpe and I have infact been to see her today. I would never use that as an excuse for abuse though.
I was brought up on OPE, so can i play??
Motto of the week -
It is the way of the weak to secretly bleat to those in authority rather than fight their own battles.
Joined: Jan 15 2007 Posts: 11924 Location: Secret Hill Top Lair. V.2
I was brought up in Aldbrough, not sure what that means.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
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