Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12668 Location: Leicestershire.
pmh wrote:For me, 2009 was a bit of a fluke. In those first seasons we seemed to do a pre season that was geared to coming out of the blocks quickly and getting points on the board and then try to hold on as long as we could. That combined with other teams having awful seasons led to us being in a bit of a false position. Last season we seemed to be looking to gradually aim to peak for the end of the season which we sort of did. This season has obviously gone badly wrong. If we're in this position this time next year then I think that wholesale changes would be absolutely imperative.
Bit of a rambling post that, which I haven't really read back. I'm sure it's a bit inconsistent so feel free to pick it to bits! It's good to be having some proper thought out debate on here.
I don't think 2009 was a case of overachieving or a fluke. Over the course of a season the results don't lie. We had a really good 27-round season but then ran out of steam in the play-offs. Other teams might have been disappointed to finish behind us, but they did - because Rovers were better than them.
However the flipside of that is that our current travails are not just down to bad luck - just as we were quite good back then, we're now quite poor.
So what went wrong? There is tendency amongst sports fans to bounce between the extremes of seeing their team as brilliant or poop. And it only takes a few extra errors, dips in performance etc to move you to the other side of the fulcrum. The fulcrum itself moves over time reflecting what is a par score for the relative quality of your team. In 2009 we were on the upswing, now we've hit the down cycle, IMO. It was unlikely ever to be a direct and triumphal march to ever greater success. Some Hull fans thought similarly in the middle of the last decade and we've maybe fallen in to the same trap. The trick is to halt and reverse the trend - whether with drastic action or a firm hand on the tiller. IMO the latter looks the better bet.
Most cliches - EVER!
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: Feb 12 2005 Posts: 13126 Location: East Staffordshire
You've had injuries to key players. In the past you've had very good continuity in your halves which determine the team's personality whereas this season it's been more difficult. You haven't had your best forward, Newton, available for much of the time. The off field stuff can't have helped either. Your back three has also been affected with injury and just basically loss of form (Fox in particular). These things in combination conspire against you, particularly when squad depth in terms of quality isn't that deep.
"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - Peter Sterling
Adam Pearson said not wrote:I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more
Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 14302 Location: On the Death Star Awaiting Luke.
nick hkr wrote:Not quite sure where you get that from out of the post I put? Justin and Rhys get on fine, in fact better than most people get on with their bosses I'd assume. As for Rhys and I, we enjoyed a cuppa while watching the Hull/Saints game after he'd left the fun day, discussing the finer things in life away from the game! Plus he's got to start performing soon he has to impress Mummy 'Oyster Bay' Lovegrove during June!!!!!
As for the Liam Watts comment, I was told (and not by Rhys before you say it!!) he is concentrating on making yards rather than looking for an offload at the moment and trying to get better at that part of his game. It has obviously stifled his natural game and for the good of this side I hope Justin is encouraging him to look for the offload once again. Saying this an unconfident team is not likely to be in support so a vicious circle the players themselves are going to have to get out of.
So Jase Netherton has performed solidly this season making only one error in 9 games, giving away 4 penalties and only missing 11 tackles yet making 211. Ok he could make more carries and meters but that isn't why he is in the team, it isn't his natural game. If all our forwards were top meter makers but not great defenders like say Wheeldon we'd be stuffed when it came to doing the dirty work.
If we compare the stats to Vella's who has played equal amount of games and considering he is an Australian international who is a more all round prop forward he is making a lot more carries but only a couple of hundred more meters in those extra 29 carries. He has made more errors, given away more penalties and missed more tackles. I am sure he has played more minutes than Jase too.
I am not saying Jase is anywhere near the standard of Mick Vella, that would be stupid, what I am saying is both are there to do a job. If your job was to sell cars you wouldn't be expected to service and MOT them, the same applies to players going out on the field.
Roverswall wrote:So come on then name me another player in a top team (This is what we are aiming to be) that is in the side for their tackling only? I think you will be having a long look trying to find one. I have given out stats before that Netherton makes 1 offload every 10 games give or take a 0.02 chance. He makes a tackle break every 0.43 games. He wouldn't get anywhere near another good SL side. You keep defending him if you want but the fact he constantly gets in the side of HKR proves one thing at least. He is exactly the type of player JM wants (No flair and hardworking). He is also a great example of why teams seem to have figured us out because we are a one trick pony.
I will take your lack of a responce to mean that I am correct and you can indeed not find another player like this at a top club.
Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 14302 Location: On the Death Star Awaiting Luke.
rover49 wrote:The problem is, fans who have limited knowledge of the finer points want a team of Dobbo's, the don't get it that all teams need players like Nev, who just get stuck in doing the 'dirty work' as you alluded to. Nev gets through an enormous amount of work that allows the more 'glamerous' players to do the fancy stuff. I know he will never score a 50 mtr try or break several tackles to offload to a speedster, but I bet if you asked the rest of the squad (those that understand the game) the value of Nev to the team, they will all give their 100% backing. I think he will get a new deal, because he is a no nonsense grafter, who can be relied on when the going gets tough, plus he doesn't cost a fortune so he can easily be fitted into the squad.
If we let him go, another club WILL pick him up, for the reasons already raised.
You don't seem able to supply me with a name either. How very strange. Maybe he Isn't as 'needed' as it is made out after all. That being the case I would class Jason Netherton (Nothing personal Jason mate honest) as a classic example of the kind of player that his holding us back. Makes you wonder. Strangely enough I asked a similar question on the 'other' board and I was greeted with the same wall of silence on there as well!!
Joined: Jan 15 2007 Posts: 11924 Location: Secret Hill Top Lair. V.2
Korkidis at Wakey, he's rubbish.
Edit; Actually, just had a look at his stats. He's miles better than Netherton! The hunt continues!
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
Joined: Jan 15 2007 Posts: 11924 Location: Secret Hill Top Lair. V.2
Nope, just had a very quick trawl through the squads and stats and all I've concluded is that Netherton has better hair than Karl "Cheese N" Temata and has missed nearly three times as many tackles as Ewan "Rubbish" Dowes.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 14302 Location: On the Death Star Awaiting Luke.
pmh wrote:Korkidis at Wakey, he's rubbish.
Edit; Actually, just had a look at his stats. He's miles better than Netherton! The hunt continues!
pmh wrote:Nope, just had a very quick trawl through the squads and stats and all I've concluded is that Netherton has better hair than Karl "Cheese N" Temata and has missed nearly three times as many tackles as Ewan "Rubbish" Dowes.
With the greatest of respect to Wakey, Crusaders and FC I did say top teams (Something we aim to be apparently). Before anyone says it no this isn't a thinly veiled attack on Hull FC.
Joined: Jan 15 2007 Posts: 11924 Location: Secret Hill Top Lair. V.2
Roverswall wrote:With the greatest of respect to Wakey, Crusaders and FC I did say top teams (Something we aim to be apparently). Before anyone says it no this isn't a thinly veiled attack on Hull FC.
There isn't anyone. I like Netherton but I think we can now safely conclude that he's just not good enough.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
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The hunt continues!
so who [is he] then
