JonM wrote:Eh? Soccer has a pyramid of promotion and relegation involving about 7000 clubs, *hundreds* of leagues and more than 20 layers.

Likewise, all RU clubs competing in the league system are part of a pyramid of relegation and promotion, ranging from (say) Yorkshire division 5 all the way up to the top league. This season, Exeter have been promoted to the top flight, having worked their way up from division 4 over the last 15 years.

Starbug wrote:Relegation didn't,t damage Leeds Utd , a stupid muppet in charge damaged Leeds Utd , spending thousands on tropical fish tanks and gambling on the bounce of the ball to get Champions league money certainly did

as I put , the same problem doesn't,t exist in RL because the contracts are different , if they had those contracts in football Leeds wouldn't,t be in the mess they are in

P and R is not perfect , just like the world we live in is not perfect , Licencing is not perfect , there is no perfect answer

I have accepted that licensing is here to stay for the foreseeable future , I don't like it or agree with it , what I won't accept though is lies and deceit from our governing body in their dealings with some clubs and their owners and fans

If they cannot do things honourably they should go , if they haven't the strength to tell the truth they are not fit to hold their positions

if you cannot see that then you are no better than they are , and if that is the case I pity you

Roverswall wrote:For a football club to join the proffesional ranks (league 2) they need to meet certain criteria.
In the past the winners have failed to be promoted on the back of this fact.

JonM wrote:It has happened 3 times in 20 odd years (and for the last seven years, two clubs have gone up). All three affected clubs have since been promoted to the football league. Such criteria can prevent promotion at multiple points in the pyramid, not just between the conference and league 2.

I don't see the relevance to a discussion of franchising, though. When RL had promotion/relegation to the top flight, Dewsbury & Hunslet both won the NFP but did not get promoted due to lack of a suitable ground etc. There's a huge difference between:

- having promotion/relegation decided by league table position, but sometimes disallowing promotion to clubs who don't meet minimum criteria

and

-having no promotion or relegation but simply having the sport's administrators decide which clubs play in which division.

maurice wrote:Roverswall, he/she has destroyed your theory accept it, P&R to SL always had caveats.
You will never stop over ambition as per Hull City, the difference being in RL SL contracts are not valid in the championship and we have a salary cap.
The withdrawal of P&R impacts mainly on Cas, Wakey, Hudds, Salford, Widnes, Leigh and Fax. It protects half and punishes the other. Give each of the clubs a similar run of success and SL handouts and all would be fairly equal over a period of time.
Ringfence expansion, ie Wales, London and France, and let the rest live dream.

Roverswall wrote:Im sorry SB but in this case I have to disagree with you as an example P&R screwed Hull City over completly.
The previous chairman spent money they didn't have on players that were 'ok' for a premiership club in a vain effort to sustain them in the Prem.
It was a s..t or bust move.
They are now in the championship and they are deeply in the s..t again.

Starbug wrote:How did P and R ' screw over ' Hull City ? , it was their choice to spend the money they did or to offer the contracts they did , I often hear how Leighs one year holiday in SL caused us financial difficulties , we actually made a profit that year despite making some terrible decisions with regards merchandise and the like , maybe Hull should have tried to emulate Bolton and bounced up and down a couple of times until they got it right

Roverswall wrote:Look at the Prem apart from the few exceptions its awash with high dept.
Also why did the prem/FA install the parachute payments if not to stop clubs going pop when they left it?
You quoted Bolton as an example of how to do it that was a diffrent period of Prem football IMHO the footballing world has been changed massively since Chelsea and just of late Man City have gotten hold of it.
You only have to look at the Derby situation they bought almost nobody in for their 1 year because the prem money went on existing depts and they ended up with the worst points haul in Prem history.
Unless you want to be embarased almost weekly you have to spend plenty of cash and even then it promises you bugger all.

Starbug wrote:So the answer is what ?