Joined: Aug 05 2002 Posts: 14094 Location: He can smoke a pound in a single bound!
Stand-Offish wrote:Well that's nice to know. I was talking about their England performances and not how they became footballers. I was observing that other nations seem to run around and graft more....but if you know better....that's that sorted.
Well you seem to, and don't appear to like it when someone doesn't agree with you.
The mantra of 'we need more graft and passion' has been repeated after every tournament exit since 1966, and has been wrong every time. The players do put the effort in, why would they bust a gut week in week out and then just not bother playing for England? If they were that way inclined they'd just not bother making themselves available for selection. They aren't paid well and get national disgrace put on their shoulders after every tournament.
What they don't have in varying measures is enough technical ability and tactical awareness. Centre halves that are all action, but cannot pass more than 5 yards, are ok in the PL, they are a weakness at International level. Terry gets away with it when he's playing with Carvalho or Ferdinand, he does not playing alongside Upson. Few players are comfortable on the ball, and the few that are are crowded out by defenders who don't have to worry about marking players who'll give them the ball back in 30 seconds by hoofing it forward. Lampard is not, and never has been, a defensive midfielder lacking the defensive reading of the game and the passing game needed to play there, should he just have worked harder?
We're that short on players with ability, Capello was desperate for Hargreaves to get a game for Utd so he could pick him, and was reliant on a half fit Barry and Rooney to play, but I suppose it would all have been ok if only the players had run round more.
I'm not Jesus Christ, I've come to accept that now.
[quote][b]XBrettKennyX wrote:[/b] Once more the anti SC brigade, purposely or otherwise fail to see the point.
Joined: Feb 18 2006 Posts: 18610 Location: Somewhere in Bonny Donny (Twinned with Krakatoa in 1883).
Billinge_Lump wrote:Well you seem to, and don't appear to like it when someone doesn't agree with you.
The mantra of 'we need more graft and passion' has been repeated after every tournament exit since 1966, and has been wrong every time. The players do put the effort in, why would they bust a gut week in week out and then just not bother playing for England? If they were that way inclined they'd just not bother making themselves available for selection. They aren't paid well and get national disgrace put on their shoulders after every tournament.
What they don't have in varying measures is enough technical ability and tactical awareness. Centre halves that are all action, but cannot pass more than 5 yards, are ok in the PL, they are a weakness at International level. Terry gets away with it when he's playing with Carvalho or Ferdinand, he does not playing alongside Upson. Few players are comfortable on the ball, and the few that are are crowded out by defenders who don't have to worry about marking players who'll give them the ball back in 30 seconds by hoofing it forward. Lampard is not, and never has been, a defensive midfielder lacking the defensive reading of the game and the passing game needed to play there, should he just have worked harder?
We're that short on players with ability, Capello was desperate for Hargreaves to get a game for Utd so he could pick him, and was reliant on a half fit Barry and Rooney to play, but I suppose it would all have been ok if only the players had run round more.
Wouldn't disagree with most of that that. There was no guarantee that running around more would have helped....particularly of the headless chicken variety...I concede that. But I don't think they really did put the effort in. Rooney wanted it to feet or he was mardy, Ashley Cole couldn't be arsed to get back at times once beaten. Gerrard has never been bothered about getting back once beaten etc I accept our limitations they are patent...but when I see defeatism and the inertia it brings...particularly in the England side under pressure, I am not a happy bunny. I honestly think for talent-limited players like ours they do need to compensate by trying harder. That's just my view...and I don't mind that people disagree or that I may be wrong. It is not really a black or white subject this is it?
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Thank God I'm an atheist.
Last edited by Stand-Offish on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Mar 15 2009 Posts: 16166 Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts
Wow what a last few seconds
Suarez saved his team by handling the ball and giving them a chance of a missed penalty but now he will miss the rest of the tournament if U R GAY go through now
Joined: Aug 05 2002 Posts: 14094 Location: He can smoke a pound in a single bound!
Stand-Offish wrote:Rooney wanted it to feet or he was mardy
Whereas I think he was incredibly frustrated at being expected to chase long balls all game rather than having it played into him. Yes, he plays up front for Man Utd, but he isn't a target man. We weren't playing to his strengths and his form was poor going into the tournament, that wasn't going to change not having him on the ball.
Quote:Ashley Cole couldn't be arsed to get back at times once beaten. Gerrard has never been bothered about getting back once beaten etc
Gerrard has been (2005 CL final a case in point) but he was another case of a square peg in a round hole, he's never been a left sided midfielder, but you are right in that he isn't the most disciplined of players. He's been a forward rather than a midfielder for two years
Quote:I accept our limitations they are patent...but when I see defeatism and the inertia it brings...particularly in the England side under pressure, I am not a happy bunny. I honestly think for talent limited players ours they do need to compensate by trying harder.
I agree that effort can compensate for talent, but that only takes you so far and doesn't usually score you goals against well marshalled defences, which is what we came up against.
Quote:That's just my view...and I don't mind that people disagree or that I may be wrong. It is not really a black or white subject this is it?
Nope, I've never thought it was.
I'm not Jesus Christ, I've come to accept that now.
[quote][b]XBrettKennyX wrote:[/b] Once more the anti SC brigade, purposely or otherwise fail to see the point.
Suarez saved his team by handling the ball and giving them a chance of a missed penalty but now he will miss the rest of the tournament if U R GAY go through now
It was going to hit him in the face, he was being a big jessie.
That was how you take a deciding penalty though, good old El Loco Abreu.
Joined: Mar 15 2009 Posts: 16166 Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts
Asim wrote:It was going to hit him in the face, he was being a big jessie.
That was how you take a deciding penalty though, good old El Loco Abreu.
As much as I think that he a bit of a cheating barsteward, put in the same situation I would have done the same thing if Im honest.(handling the ball to give my country a chance, not being a big Jessie )
LFCRhino wrote:As much as I think that he a bit of a cheating barsteward, put in the same situation I would have done the same thing if Im honest.(handling the ball to give my country a chance, not being a big Jessie )
Me too, anyone who says otherwise is lying, though I doubt he even thought about it, pure instinct, if he'd had time to think he'd have surely just headed it away?
At least he should be fresh for the final now! I was mocked at work for my pre-tournament prediction of Uruguay to reach the semis, now my £1 on them winning it comes into play!
Joined: Mar 15 2009 Posts: 16166 Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts
Asim wrote:Me too, anyone who says otherwise is lying, though I doubt he even thought about it, pure instinct, if he'd had time to think he'd have surely just headed it away?
Exactly what I was just saying mate, he wouldnt have thought about it IMO because it all happened so quickly
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