Cooke looked good for us because he was good. He played in a time with quality around him in Jason Smith Barnett snr, Kearney etc. This is why hes a challenge cup winner with HULL FC. A grand Final runner up with HULL FC. You wouldn't understand as you've not reached a decent final since Tony Blackburn spun classics on Radio 1!!!! Cooke left because he thought he deserved more money and foolishly walked out on Hull FC spouting the 'I'm a Rovers fan cr*p' - yet I'd bet he wishes he still pulled on a black and white shirt now after his failure with Rovers. He was on the verge of international honours with HULL FC.
Yes we've recruited poorly for some years. And for the fan base we have and potential, we should have brought in a top coach years ago....
As for your signings being 'for the future' - harsh reality your suffering like most clubs in the credit crunch and cant afford the inflated wages you've thrown about. Talking cr*p about Wheeldon being poorly coached when he came to you is just rubbish. We have a far better setup, far better facilities. Wheeldon left because he couldn't get into our team.
Yes we've signed some old players. I for one think we are still well short of the Leeds and Saints and will do well if we get the playoffs. However I don't think you have such a great squad yourselves - And if you have a poor season and fail to hit Hudgells - 10,000 - Then what next for you???????
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
General Zod. wrote:The main problem FC fans have when comparing how their departed players have performed for Rovers is their failure to grasp the fact the Rovers play in a completely different way to FC in almost every aspect.
Cooke looked better playing for FC because he was playing in a team full of donkeys incapable of creating things for themselves hence the stat that he was involved 83% in of FC's tries whilst he was there and to expect him to have the same input for Rovers when he plays alongside the SL Dream Team scrum-half in Dobson, a genuine ball-playing loose-man in Murrell and the creative contribution of other players like Galea, then the it's not gonna happen.
FC fans again waffle on about "Briscoe running up the middle channel" but when they had Carvell, Thackray, King and Dowes at their best, FC's game plan was simply to pummel up the middle and give Cooke a free rein off the back of that. Then the league got stronger and FC's pack went from being to one of the strongest to one of the weakest. Rovers are far more expansive and utilise Briscoe in a different way, for example, like the try against Cas at home last year when Cas had the right numbers in their defensive line and Cooke weighted a perfect blind pass to Briscoe who came in to create a 2 on 1 at the last split second which we scored from.
As for Wheedlon, he is in far, far superior condition at Rovers than he ever was at FC. To add to that, a little dicky bird told me the reason Wheeldon had to wait 6/7 weeks into the season for his chance last year was because Morgan was not happy with the coaching he received at FC. FC fans will go on about the likes of Wheeldon "not being good enough" but he played more games than any other prop for us last year and we finished one point off 3rd place.
So anyway I'll have a dig at FC's pack to redress the balance:
The so called "Tongan Mafia" are so good they helped FC reach the giddy heights of 12th last year. Luaki will certainly toughen up FC's soft under-belly but like Manu and especially Moa, I expect them to be very poor in retreating the 10 and this will be their undoing.
Fitzgibbon is 6 years past his best and as a workhorse, O'Meley likes his nights out in Leeds and is a tough lad but again judging by the assassination his previous coaching staff gave him, I fully expect him to have the same problems as the "Tongan Mafia".
Long is a good signing as he's a classic scrum-half but even the Saints fans have said he's been on the decline for the past 2 years.
It's a shame is that by the time I'll be proved right, the FC trolls won't be around...
Virtually all irrelevant. It was stated as fact that Briscoe is a "Far better" player at Rovers than he was at Hull. I notice you include Dream Team selection as worthy of note for Dobson. Briscoe was in the Dream Team whilst FC in 2004 and on the brink of international selection whilst Wellens was at the peak of his career. He was a very good player for Hull and important in us finishing 2nd in 2006 reaching 2 major finals at that time. He has also been very good for Rovers. Whether in a different role or not is irrelevant. To claim he is now "far better" is rubbish.
As for the rest - we'll see. The weaknesses you point out suggest that whilst you rate none of the players we have, we have some workhorse forwards and some impact forwards. Your disparaging comments about Fitzgibbon are interesting. You obviously expect him to deliver nothing. The point about the Tongan players' being the ones who got us to 12th is equally ill thought out. Between them they played only 40 games out of 81. Manu was overused due to the level of injuries we had and Lauaki only debuted with 3 games to go.
And then we have Cooke. A pivotal player at Hull. You articulate his positives quite well. Why are Rovers trying to get rid?
Joined: Feb 12 2005 Posts: 13126 Location: East Staffordshire
General Zod. wrote:The main problem FC fans have when comparing how their departed players have performed for Rovers is their failure to grasp the fact the Rovers play in a completely different way to FC in almost every aspect.
Cooke looked better playing for FC because he was playing in a team full of donkeys incapable of creating things for themselves hence the stat that he was involved 83% in of FC's tries whilst he was there and to expect him to have the same input for Rovers when he plays alongside the SL Dream Team scrum-half in Dobson, a genuine ball-playing loose-man in Murrell and the creative contribution of other players like Galea, then the it's not gonna happen.
FC fans again waffle on about "Briscoe running up the middle channel" but when they had Carvell, Thackray, King and Dowes at their best, FC's game plan was simply to pummel up the middle and give Cooke a free rein off the back of that. Then the league got stronger and FC's pack went from being to one of the strongest to one of the weakest. Rovers are far more expansive and utilise Briscoe in a different way, for example, like the try against Cas at home last year when Cas had the right numbers in their defensive line and Cooke weighted a perfect blind pass to Briscoe who came in to create a 2 on 1 at the last split second which we scored from.
As for Wheedlon, he is in far, far superior condition at Rovers than he ever was at FC. To add to that, a little dicky bird told me the reason Wheeldon had to wait 6/7 weeks into the season for his chance last year was because Morgan was not happy with the coaching he received at FC. FC fans will go on about the likes of Wheeldon "not being good enough" but he played more games than any other prop for us last year and we finished one point off 3rd place.
So anyway I'll have a dig at FC's pack to redress the balance:
The so called "Tongan Mafia" are so good they helped FC reach the giddy heights of 12th last year. Luaki will certainly toughen up FC's soft under-belly but like Manu and especially Moa, I expect them to be very poor in retreating the 10 and this will be their undoing.
Fitzgibbon is 6 years past his best and as a workhorse, O'Meley likes his nights out in Leeds and is a tough lad but again judging by the assassination his previous coaching staff gave him, I fully expect him to have the same problems as the "Tongan Mafia".
Long is a good signing as he's a classic scrum-half but even the Saints fans have said he's been on the decline for the past 2 years.
It's a shame is that by the time I'll be proved right, the FC trolls won't be around...
Back on topic having watched your props get smashed all over the field in your last 2 games is there any news on Clinton ?
"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - Peter Sterling
Adam Pearson said not wrote:I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
Big Dave T wrote:Doesnt really show me as unable to have a reasonable debate, shows me to have a different opinion to you and therefore you think its unreasonable. That's why debates struggle on this site at the minute, too many people unwilling to accept others views. I accept that you think Murrell is better than that, i actually agree slightly that Wheeldon is a better player at Rovers, he's had more game time and matured. Sean Briscoe i disagree with, his main strength was always his support play as well as his defensive ability. I dont see Morgs using him down the central channel as a support player and think thats not the best way to use him.
I'll let Hudge know, he can sack him and appoint you
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Joined: Jun 11 2007 Posts: 12260 Location: south of Hull.
Red Revenge wrote:Shaun & Paul were pivotal players for Hull, and they are great players for us. It will always leave a bad taste in the mouth of Hull fans to see both Shaun & Paul in the Red & White kit and understandably so i feel it was a huge mistake on the part of Hull to let these chaps leave the club, Hull have not been the same since.
AAAAnnnnd the award for stating the bleeding obvious goes to......................
BLACK AND WHITES
East is East,West is West, and never the twain shall meet.
-------------------------------- "I" said the sparrow "With my bow and arrow."
Joined: Mar 05 2007 Posts: 13190 Location: Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
Thought this was about Clinton.
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Mrs Barista wrote:Virtually all irrelevant. It was stated as fact that Briscoe is a "Far better" player at Rovers than he was at Hull. I notice you include Dream Team selection as worthy of note for Dobson. Briscoe was in the Dream Team whilst FC in 2004 and on the brink of international selection whilst Wellens was at the peak of his career. He was a very good player for Hull and important in us finishing 2nd in 2006 reaching 2 major finals at that time. He has also been very good for Rovers. Whether in a different role or not is irrelevant. To claim he is now "far better" is rubbish.
As for the rest - we'll see. The weaknesses you point out suggest that whilst you rate none of the players we have, we have some workhorse forwards and some impact forwards. Your disparaging comments about Fitzgibbon are interesting. You obviously expect him to deliver nothing. The point about the Tongan players' being the ones who got us to 12th is equally ill thought out. Between them they played only 40 games out of 81. Manu was overused due to the level of injuries we had and Lauaki only debuted with 3 games to go.
And then we have Cooke. A pivotal player at Hull. You articulate his positives quite well. Why are Rovers trying to get rid?
Let's not pull any punches, the guy has been a great player over the years but the harsh reality now is that he's a has-been who will get sucked into FC's culture of failure as his decline as a player will snowball a in typical FC fashion.
As for O'Meley, from what I'm hearing he's not exactly buying into Agar's philosophy in terms of a "change of culture".
FC have made a few "paper over the cracks" type signings and it's laughable that folk are buying into the Rule spin because it will all end in tears again and I very much doubt they'll even make the play-offs - just like the last two seasons...
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