MSH wrote:Linky - try to ignore the pic Can't see it before on here, but suggestions of The Who at the Super Bowl half time show...boy I'd love that Me too

MSH wrote:Linky - try to ignore the pic Can't see it before on here, but suggestions of The Who at the Super Bowl half time show...boy I'd love that Me too

Yes 12 places, the difference is only just over a yard.

3 picks is indeed bad, with the worst offensive line in the NFL he still only has 5 picks on the season and is in the top 5 (performance wise) QB's.

Favre has put in alot of INT's. I've never denied that, oh and he isn't my love interest. In his last season with us HE cost us the place in the SB with a stupid pass that was picked off by NYG.

By the same token he has thrown a number of ridiculously good passes that should be picked off and aren't and he won us games single handedly so i can forgive him for the INT's.

Cutler hasn't yet shown he is as good. Last year for example they needed one win from three to make the play-offs and they blew it. His passer rating has gone down each year. (88.5, 88.1, 86.0, 76.0) while his interceptions have increased each year (5, 14, 18, 17) I think it is safe to assume he'll throw one or two more picks before the season ends.

Two red zone INT's in the San Fran game, even if they only got FG they would have won 12-10. I have seen the Bears twice this year and each time Cutler has cost them the game and thrown 4 or 5 picks (can't remember if it was 4 or 5 versus us). The San Fran game and the first game of the year against us.

Out of interest why wasn't Rodgers, if he is elite as you say, expected to take GB back to the playoffs last year? He inherited a 13-3 team. Mr Brady, of whom you say Rodgers is of similar stature, inherited a team that had gone 5-11 the season before to the Superbowl after leading them to an 11-5 record (I believe they were 11-3 with him as starter that year).

He isn't an elite QB yet, the TB game showed this in fact his 10-14 record as a starter shows this. There are 31 other teams in this league please, please, please start to recognise that there is more talent out there than just at Green Bay.

Cos he cant finish a game

You can't expect a first year starting QB with the youngest team around him to make the play-offs straight away. Can it happen, yes it can but it certainly isn't expected and the Packers organisation and myself as a fan didn't expect it. I would have been happy with a decent record and a shot at the play-offs.

Secondly the team around him were not the same level as the year before. Ryan Grant being the prime example, he was excellent in Favre's last season but held-out and was injured.

As it goes Rodgers was our best player last season by a clear distance.



Rodgers isn't a similar stature. I've said he could be consistently as good. He is performing excellently this year and did last year with a terrible O line. This year he is performing as well as virtually every QB in the league not called Brees/Manning.



Did you see the game or are you just basing it on stats?


Again, it was an all around poor team performance. Rodgers didn't do anything particularly wrong, our pourous O-Line means he has to run around too much.



I do recognise that. We aren't the best team and we don't have the best player in any position. Brees is the best QB, Peterson and Jackson are the best RB's etc.

We have an average RB, a horrible O-Line, average pass rush and an abysmal special teams.

What annoys me is people don't recognise how good our good players are because we are small market team.

What does Rodgers have to do to be elite? He is performing as well as ANY QB (Not Manning/Brees) in the league, without a doubt in the top 5 with a terrible O-Line that can't protect him and an average running game to support him. I'd bet if he played for a "bigger" team, say Dallas and was doing exactly the same production he'd be regarded much more by the media and people on here. The same goes for Greg Jennings and Aaron Kampman for us and Matt Schaub at Houston.

Where would you place Rodgers in the best QB's?

To answer your first opinion, i was merely stating that you had compared Rodgers to the abilities of Brady. Brady is a 1st ballot HOF who has been clutch all his career, Rodgers so far hasn't.

On the 2nd point i'll give you that having looked, you stated he could be as good as Brady, i personally don't think he will be. As i stated before Brady has been a clutch QB all his career. There is no QB i have seen who i would rather have out there down by 6 with 2:00 to go. This is why i think you guys are an average team, Brady finds ways to win for his team while Rodgers doesn't quite manage it yet.

Point 3. I didn't see the game, as you know i follow the Rams for my sins. I don't base my opinions completely on stats. I base my opinion on players performing consistently when the chips are down, something i haven't really seen Rodgers do. I will readily admit i haven't followed his career as closely as yourself so stand to be corrected if he has lead GB on a few game winners. How many changes were made to the team between 07 and 08 out of interest?

I think people do recognise that you have good players. Green bay gets more coverage than a lot of teams due to their individuality. You don't really help yourself with some of your statements though. I think you stated earlier in the thread that GB has a better receiving corps than NE? Welker and Moss are head and shoulders above anyone in the league IMO.

I don't consider Rodgers elite as he hasn't got the record to be an elite QB. To be elite for me you have to have done it consistently and led teams to the playoffs.

I would personally take P and E Manning, P Rivers, D Brees, B Roethlisberger and T Brady over him. All have performed consistently and have led their teams to the playoffs. These are all my personal opinions of course and i look forward to reading your reply

I'd take Favre.

Rodgers tries but he can't do it alone, the rest of the team don't help him. Plus he is a young QB trying to take over from the best QB ever, with an extremely young team around him.



Not that many that i remember. A large part was the play of the team. Like i said. In the last year with Brett, Grant was excellent (200+ yards in the play-offs vs Seattle as an example) then he held out from camp for a new contract which he got, then he got injured so was pretty ineffective/injured until week 10-11. Possibly a change on our O-Line but nothing massive. Likewise our defence was terrible, the main reason we changed to the 3-4 and got a new DC.



I don't agree. People might acknowledge us because we are owned by the public but our players never get recognition. Kampman for example has an excellent record of sacks in the last few years, (he is in the top 5 with Pepper, Ware, Merriman) but never gets mentioned as elite.

Rodgers, like i've said, people ignore as top 5 even though he is consistently good enough.

Woodson and Harris are potentially the best DB tandem in the league. This is all shown by the fact we rarely get players in the pro-bowl. In our 13-3 year we had 3 i think and 1 or 2 were back-ups.

We have greater depth at reciever than New England. Simply this year though we don't have the time to give them the ball.




I'd disagree. He has done it consistently. Both this year and last year he has been consistently in the top 5 QB's. We've had difficulties in other areas which prevent us from making the play-offs. Like our O-Line this year, he has been sacked 37 times and knocked down plently more and is running all the time. He has still been excellent. With a consistent line he'd be better and possibly we'd be play-off calibre. That doesn't detract from how good Rodgers is.

Likewise Cutler doesn't have a winning record. I'm sure i read McNabb is 1-8-1 in the last few years in games decided by 7 points or less. Romo bottles it in December/January also.

Three QB's many would consider elite.



Fair enough. For me he is better than E. Manning (and possibly Rivers). Manning has the ring and is a good game manager but Rodgers is a better player.

Honestly i'd go.

1. Brees
2. P. Manning
3. Brady
4. Roethlisberger
5. Rodgers
6. Rivers
7. E. Manning
8. Schaub
9. Cutler
10. Romo

I'm not saying Rodgers is the best QB in the league. He has the potential to be, but my point is people underestimate how good he actually is because of the team he plays, being small market and the fact that we don't get many games on TV.

Hopefully he can show how good he is tomorrow.

Brees as top QB in the league?!?!

Manning closely followed by Brady for the top 2 and it's not even close. I might even go as far as putting Roethlisberger ahead of Brees. I'd probably rate Rivers in my personal top 5 as well.

No way Brees is the best QB in the league by a distance hes special that lad got everything the stats he has put up for the last 2 year are unreal he will get a ring THIS year before you bring that argument in lol

Tauscher is definately out for us. Thankfully Allen "Can't Block" Babre has been dropped and TJ Lang is going to shift over to RT. 10X better than Babre.

Kampman is also out injured. Brad Jones will make his first career start.