If we dont sign anyone for next season, how can anyone state the club won't have gone backwards in terms of a playing squad for 2010?

Bailey is the player all the youngsters look up to and Hock is the best second row in the competition.



Certainly not me, I have no axe to grind with IL long term, it just astounds me that Noble, Maurice, Players etc will all get flack but people are so keen to just accept what IL says. He hasnt imo given an acceptable reason for no signings for 2010.

That combined for the Noble issue would have caused this place to explode if Maurice/Whelan were still in place.

IL's hands are tied by the signings he DID make. Last season he signed Piggy and |Roberts on long term deals (and getting Roberts a year ealry was definitely an IL decision). This season Coley, TL, Phelps, Smith and Bailey (not sure about Carmont) are/were all off contract but most got re-signed.

If changes in playing staff were needed the only money you get free'd up is that coming from players off contract who you do not re-sign. So by re-signing the likes of Coley and TL what IL has done is eat up any money that was due to become free.

So it's not just big contracts previously agreed before he got here that is using up all the salary cap money but signings he has made including re-signing the players out of contract this year.

Now you may say it was obvious TL warranted a new deal but there is always plenty of debate over if he is good enough. An option was to let him go and use his wages to try and go for a better 7 but IL has chosen not to.

When discussing Roberts or Piggy the argument often put forward is they are better then what was here before. OK then, would Tronc or similar not be better than Coley? IL has chosen to stick with Coley.

So the point I am making is with the number of players out of contract added to Hock's wage being available, there was plenty of scope to change the side around but IL has chosen not to do so and therefore it is not because his hands were tied that we have the team we have but rather because he chose for us to have this team in 2010.

Dave

Personally i think we will be stronger next season than this even without any new faces purely down to how well some of the younger players have stepped up this season (although whether we would be strong enough to break the top two stranglehold is up for debate). Maybe we don't need to bring many/any in apart from maybe at prop although we still have 5 of those.

I agree.

bang on - the time has passed to blame previous admins - remember way back at deanery il and joe lydon did a lot of 'give us 2 years' talk, and 'we are top heavy salary wise' but we will sort it out. if we are in a mess salary wise then it seems unacceptable to me. since deanery think of the high earners who've left or will be doing by this off season.

barrett
bailey
higham
hock
calderwood
tim smith

alone should be a hell of a wedge. prob more names to add to it but really where has the cash gone? surely improving the wages of the current squad doesnt equal out to the money you can only speculate that lot earnt between them.

someone told me the other day that bailey earns more than fielden - if this is truje then we are talking a mega wedge.

If that's true, it rather contradicts what you said about the time having passed to blame the previous admin.

I think that we are being a little too pessimistic here. Our stand out loss is Hock , one of our few "World Class" players, but our record without him has been better than when he was playing earlier in the season. It has allowed our younger players to take up the cudgel, and I think they have done it really well.

Now if the likes of Prescott, Joel Tomkins, Hanson, Mcillorum and Mossop can continue to improve next year I don't think the loss of Hock will hit us too hard, apart from a little less depth in the squad. I have been impressed with how these players have responded this season and have no reason to suspect they will not continue to improve. They are not far short of very good Super League players now and could all go up another notch. Not sure what to think about O'Carroll, a pity about his injury, but he is a useful performer now with plenty of potential in him.

"Experienced" packmen like Feka, Fielden and and Riddell are not to old to improve, or arrest the decline in Fielden's case, and I think it is only a case of the right conditioning for all three of them which could sort them out. Coley IMO is at his peak but should be able to stay there for next season.

The likes of Davies and Farrall will hopefully also be introduced and although I don't expect great things from them they will benefit just as Prescott, Joel, etc have done previously and may even develop quicker.

I know there are plenty of ifs and buts in there but if you look at it in a positive rather than negative way, we could end up with a storming pack next year, without the steamrolling prop everyone says we need.

I think most people agree that the backs are as good as we've had for a few years now. Sam, Tommy and Phelps will continue to improve. Richards, Carmont, Roberts and Gleeson are as good as they are going to get but hopefully the Roberts/Gleeson combination will gel better than it has to date and that Carmont has at least another season in him. To back this up we have the likes of Goulding, Ainscough and Thornley.

I am not as worried about the lack of a new prop as I am about depth for the backs. Injury to either Tommy or Sam will leave us horribly exposed at half back with no obvious replacement unless there is someone in the reserves who is ready to step up. I think we are also a little light in backup for the threequarters and full back. Is this where Bailey will prove to be more useful than in the pack as a stop gap until we can get better?

So what I'm trying to say is that with further development in the young forwards and a kick up the backside for some of the older ones we will have a pack to match the best in the league and with our existing backline we may just surprise a few people.

And what if he signed up S.Tomkins and Phelps?

Any chairman with an ounce of common sense would extend their deals! I have to agree with AJ.

If we don't sign anyone, prepare for ANOTHER long dismal season in 2010.

It is the 'next year, next year, next year' that most Wigan fans (myself included) really are getting frustrated, annoyed and to be frank impatient with.

If we don't sign anyone then fine so be it, but don't IL and BN (or whoever is coach) try to big 2010 up for us fans for yet another failure season.