R.B.A wrote:Fair enough, but i think that there would be more bother if Hull tried to reduce Hornes wages and when he took them to court they produce half a dozen of James Smailes match reports as exhibit A.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12656 Location: Leicestershire.
Big Dave T wrote:Actually performance in the role would and could be used to dismiss him. As an alternative i'd offer him a renegotiated contract. (obviously only if his form doesnt pick up)
Ive said for years that rugby league players can be dismissed on the grounds of capability (ie not performing) but no clubs take this up, mainly due to the bad press and as you say possible impacts on recruitment.
I'd be disappointed though if his performances remain 50% of what they have always been but he stays on 100% of his salary. (Richard himself wouldnt want this either)
As nobeerineasthull as pointed out, it might be theoretically possible, but it'd be impractical. He's the top Hull points scorer in the Albert Goldthorpe Medal, for example. You might think it is a joke award, but would you rely on a judge to agree?
I don't know the lad, but he'd be foolish, IMO, to accept a pay-cut - unless it is in exchange for a longer deal. He's done nothing wrong, and his form and fitness have been good enough to be selected for 22 games in SL this year. He's got a young family I believe and has to look after them.
How would you react if a player felt his performances deserved a pay increase and he tried to squirm out of an existing deal to go elsewhere?
Joined: Jul 31 2003 Posts: 36786 Location: Leafy Worcester, home of the Black Pear
Nobeerineasthull wrote:Any employee can be dismissed for capability or performance but apart from the PR issues highlighted by Big Dave the main problem with a professional RL player would be proving it and the reason for it. There would be plenty of scope for the player to muddy the waters by alleging bad coaching, tactics, being played out of position, other players not performing etc. In addition the reasons for the non-performance would have to be addressed with the player and the appropriate warnings given before he could be dismissed. In all but the most extreme cases it is a legal minefield and I can't see any club going down that route.
Horne has had a poor season by his standards which may be down to his injury last year, his diabetes or taking his eye off the ball because of his testemonial.
i don't believe that any player should be regarded as untouchable. However the fact remains he is one of our few quality players and I think its too soon to be talking about a pay cut or re-negotiating his contract. I would be very disappointed if he were to have as bad a season next year and would be surprised if we were talking about him in these terms at this time next year.
Excellent post, and sums up my feelings on the matter.
Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One
Joined: Jul 31 2003 Posts: 36786 Location: Leafy Worcester, home of the Black Pear
Sebasteeno wrote:Carrying Horne all season is one of the reasons FC are so bl00dy appauling at present. When he was injured a few weeks back and Whiting took a more active role we improved now Whitings out and its back to the same old tosh.
IMO this team needs to change dramatically and with Long coming in id have Tansey at S/O and put Horne at full back as he clearly isnt good enough to be a half back anymore.
This, on the other hand, is utter rubbish. As usual.
Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One
Mild Rover wrote:As nobeerineasthull as pointed out, it might be theoretically possible, but it'd be impractical. He's the top Hull points scorer in the Albert Goldthorpe Medal, for example. You might think it is a joke award, but would you rely on a judge to agree?
I don't know the lad, but he'd be foolish, IMO, to accept a pay-cut - unless it is in exchange for a longer deal. He's done nothing wrong, and his form and fitness have been good enough to be selected for 22 games in SL this year. He's got a young family I believe and has to look after them.
How would you react if a player felt his performances deserved a pay increase and he tried to squirm out of an existing deal to go elsewhere?
Read my follow up post!!
To address your 2nd paragraph, if his choice is to renegotiate on a lower deal or be dismissed the balls in his court. The only thing he has done wrong is to be a shadow of his former self. If he is like that next season too FC need to take a serious look at it. No room for sentiment in sport.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12656 Location: Leicestershire.
Big Dave T wrote:Read my follow up post!!
To address your 2nd paragraph, if his choice is to renegotiate on a lower deal or be dismissed the balls in his court. The only thing he has done wrong is to be a shadow of his former self. If he is like that next season too FC need to take a serious look at it. No room for sentiment in sport.
Unless there were specific performance targets in his existing contract that he is missing, why would he be dismissed?
As for sentiment - this isn't a contract renwal, it is honouring an existing contract. He might take a pay-off or some such, but he can do it on his own terms - assuming his contract is in order.
He's yours until 2011, for better or worse - I think there is every chance it will be 'better' and that you've got other more pressing problems.
Mild Rover wrote:Unless there were specific performance targets in his existing contract that he is missing, why would he be dismissed?
Targets are generally non-contractual but if Hull FC said to him that they werent happy with his performances and they wanted to put some objectives in place as a development plan he would need to go along with it really. (providing he wants to improve and get his old form back)
If he doesnt FC would struggle to dismiss him but you can bet he wouldnt get a game and he would be isolated until he left.
Mild Rover wrote:As for sentiment - this isn't a contract renwal, it is honouring an existing contract. He might take a pay-off or some such, but he can do it on his own terms - assuming his contract is in order.
He's yours until 2011, for better or worse - I think there is every chance it will be 'better' and that you've got other more pressing problems.
Not really, on his own terms he wouldnt want to be sat in the reserves for not re-negotiating. Hull definately have bargaining power here.
He's ours til 2011 yes, and i hope your right that it will be for the better. All im arguing on here is that we do have options though if it isnt, whether you agree with me or not.
Joined: Jul 31 2003 Posts: 36786 Location: Leafy Worcester, home of the Black Pear
Mild Rover wrote:He's yours until 2011, for better or worse - I think there is every chance it will be 'better' and that you've got other more pressing problems.
Bingo.
All this fuss about Horne seems a tad OTT given the position we're in TBH.
Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 0 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
