Smith has had a few months with his players...Agar has had a season and a half, give Smith the same time and he will have Warrington at the right end of the table, regardless of what players he has at his disposal.

Comparing Smith and Agar is like comparing Wenger and Martinez (at Wigan FC)

and centre, wing and full back, 2nd row could do with some work too.

Although our water carrier is top of the OPTA stats

We're also near the top in the 'Standing Under The Posts Staring At The Ground' table.

Both. For a start they signed our best forward last year and have a way better pack than ours. Yet still thay are not much further up than us in the table.

Your second point I agree with to a degree. Except to say that the better players who play in teams that win things have a personal drive to be successful. It's what sets them apart from those who try hard and may even have some ability but generally mickey it up the wall and remain average. We would appear to have a number of those average types and one of the club's big failings in recent years has been to award this mediocre attitude with fat new contracts.

I think that that is fair. I get the feeling that Kear would have done better with this squad although it's difficult to judge. IMO Agar does have deficiencies because he is an inexperienced coach. I also think that one of the advantages of having no relegation is that we can not only, bring inexperienced British players through the system but bring inexperienced coaches through as well. Next year he will also have the coaching input of some of the most experienced players in the world. Bradford, who are doing worse than Hull, are standing by Macca (I think) for the same reason whilst they go through a rebuilding programme. Kath's attempts in the programme to explain how the salary cap has affected Hull this year is an example of her support for Agar and her frustration at the position FC find themselves in. I understand and empathise with people who want success now and to get rid of Agar but it is my hope he proves to be a worthwhile investment for the future. I'm not sure myself that he is - I just want to give him a chance with a fair roll of the dice. Next year will see him with no hiding place because surely the visa issues and injuries can't repeat.

My point was in answer to a specific post about our error rate. Wire made millions of errors at the weekend. How do you explain that with Smith in charge ? He hasn't had long enough to teach them to catch ?

Good post and very fair comment.

"a fair roll of the dice" - I'd rather he got a fir roll of the drums on his way up the steps to the gallows! (metaphorically)

How much time do people want to give him, "It's okay sir, don't worry, we've got the best up and coming young surgeon in the country, he's a bit deficient in the experience department and his ability to take corrective action has, well, been questioned in the past, but I am sure you'll be fine. Now, just a little scratch......"

people amaze me, RL is a RESULTS BUSINESS.

Don't agree, yes we lost Carvell but his departure is not the main reason we are a poor side, as for Crocker you don't miss what you never had, Thorman is crap admittedly but then we never saw much of Dykes.

For me there is still enough in the players we have to be doing a hell of let better that we are and from time to time this season they have shown they can do it when they can be arsed but sadly that is only in glimpses.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying we would be world beaters but we should be at least competing with the teams in 3rd to 8th, Agar should certainly be getting more out of the players he has at his disposal. An example is Wakefield under Kear not a great talented bunch of players but he gets the best out of them and has moulded them into a team and plays to its strengths, plus he hasn't taken any messing and shipped out if needed and they too have had injury problems, were as our coach is totally clueless or has just written this and last season off as its not his team.

Now this is the question isn't it? Why can't they be bothered? We have the argument that many know they will be shown the door, but you'd think that would up the ante for many of them, as they are in the shop window so to speak. It could of course be pure bitchiness, But then they're blokes and blokes don't do that (do they? )
I'm still on the side (just) of giving Richard a chance with his team next season, but doing that of course, and it going belly up, could mean we write off yet another season! Do we really have a choice though?
I've calmed down a bit from Friday, and would imagine what Richard said was on the spur of the moment, and we just seemed like another irritant on his back at the time of the interview. But surely he should know by now (he's been here long enough) that Hull FC are the team AND the fans together, and when we feed off each other we do far far better.