When a fair sprinkling of them come back from Australia with the Ashes (a world cup or even tri/quad nations would do) then they will rightly be held in the same esteem as Smith, Hynes, Atkinson, Shoebottom, Seabourne, Holmes, Clawson and Jeans.

Until then......

They'll all be at Warrington next year

You can hardly blame the players of today's generation for the gap in standards between us and the Aussies that those who run the game today allowed to set in after the generation of players you mention had finished.

The players you mentioned achieved great deeds for the international side and that is something, rightly, to be proud of.

One wonders why they didn't quite live up to their status domestically, unlike this generation.

Between the 1966/67 and 1972/73 seasons Leeds topped the table five years, won two championships, one Challenge Cup, three Yorkshire Cups, one John Player, one BBC2 Floodlit trophy, one European Club Championship and beat the New Zealand touring team.

From those Leeds teams of that era Smith, Hynes, Atkinson, Shoebottom and Seabourne helped GB win the Ashes in Australia while Atkinson, Holmes, Clawson and Jeans helped GB win the RL World Cup in France.

Today's individual players have a lot to live up to.

Between 2004 and 2008 today's players have won 1 more championship in 2 less seasons. They have 1 more seasons to get a CC. They have 2 WCC to the 1 European Club Championship and as we no longer play Yorkshire Cups, John Player Trophies, BBC2 Floodlit Trophies or touring teams then its' hardly the basis for a comparison.

As for your league leaders comment you have pointed out elsewhere how flawed that was, given that we played predominantly Yorkshire teams. Were any of those seasons played under 1 division?

Well done for completely ignoring the point I made about comparisons of international achievements. However, many of them have played in a series win against NZ (one of them being player of the series).

Today's individual players have nothing to live up to. They've exceeded yesteryears domestically in a shorter time-span than you have selected.

How many of the team that played in the 1969 Championship Final played in the 1972 Final, by the way?

Senior will end up being one the greatest leeds players my generation will ever see. Despite being in the decline he is still doing it at the top level. Flash in the pans are frequent but to gain the consistency and longevity in a career he has is unheard of. I would like to know what he eats for breakfast, one shredded wheat or twelvety??

Sinfield is a great of the club but doesn't get the kudos from other RL fans to be considered up with Senior in the sport.

For me Danny or Rob haven't reached that next level yet.

Out of the four named by the OP it is Senior that I believe will grace the annals with the greatest prevalence. There is not much that ‘Beef’ hasn’t achieved

3 Dream Team shirts
CC winners Medal
3 Championship rings
44 representative appearances (over 13 years)
178(?) Domestic appearances


A true ‘All Time Great’

I'll accept your five season time frame and drop the Trophies that were not on offer in both eras (JP/FT/YC/ECC/WCC.)

1967/8 to 1971/72
League Leaders - 4
Champions - 2 (+1 losing final)
Challenge Cup - 1 (+2 losing finals)

2004 to 2008
League Leaders - 1
Champions - 3 (+1 losing final)
Challenge Cup - 0



They were all played under a single division system but just as the seasons you wish to compare to they weren't decided by playing every other team equally. It was the same for teams either side of the pennines.



A pity that wasn't a more representative Kiwi side like the one that played in the World Cup but that's by the by.

On your more general International point, were Australia GB's whipping boys (as is the case reversed nowadays) in the lead up to the momentous Ashes encounters down under in 1970?

It's my recollection that Australia had in fact won the previous three Ashes series (two of those on these shores) and winning the Ashes back was a fantastic achievement and one modern day GB/England players (including the subjects of this thread) can only dream about.



I've changed my time span to yours and the result is close enough to be debateable which achieved the most on the basis of results and big game involvement having set aside the additional comps of yesteryear.

As individuals, judged on the International front, there can be little comparison between the Ashes and World Cup winners and a series win V an understrength New Zealand select.

I still think that to be able to say 'best ever' domestically the current team needs to add a CC win - may be less important nowadays but it's still a trophy they haven't won.

I do agree though that with the benefit of hindsight this team will be appreciated more. And from what I recall the great Arthur Clues won diddly squat in his time at Leeds, which according to some measures would mean he can't have been that good.