Which is a stupid reason. You have to be totally cold hearted in making decision pertaining to playing staff. You get the best man for the job. This should be defined by numerous factors. One factor that must be excluded is whether that player has been playing for your rivals.

but long isnt the best man for the job? Compared to orford surely it would be worth the bit of extra money to sign someone that the fans would be happy with, as well as not risking the disruption that long could bring to the team?

it may be stupid on the part of the fans not wanting to accept sean long as a wigan player and i agree a cold hearted approach is needed but IL and BN cannot risk allienating a large number of fans and possibly losing a chunk if revenue (of course, i cant speak on behalf of everyone) by signing sean long

You've just focused on Tim Smith over in the SL when I listed several Aus halfbacks. I listed more than 1 HB to prove the point.

You speak of Not blooding them together I think you're referring to Tomkins and Myler, thats why I feel and agree a senior player is needed in the mix, I counted this by many times over outlining what I would do with Sam if we signed Long/Orford and Myler.

The two year age difference between Orford and Long is irrelevant, there are many players out there who are old but yet fitter than younger players, i.e a 35yr old Menzies is still top notch.

Don't forget Millward was the coach, not a player. The coach has the final say not the number 7. Plus Long is a Wigan lad not an Aussie like Millward. It would be closer to compare Long to Gleeson, both well liked saints players who are from Wigan. Gleeson has been accepted by all at Wigan.
Also don't forget Long is quiet friendly with many Wigan lads, which would make his integration into the team smoother than Orford.
So I'm not entirely sure how your speculation that Long would causes issues as a former saints player is valid.

Oh and thank you for holding back on the insults.[/quote]

I apologise for focusing on Smith i missed off the others by accident. Monaghan was superb in his first year lost his way under Lowes somewhat but is finding his form under a good coach again. Sherwin has been a great signing for Cas despite a slow start he has guided them round the field superbly, very good player. Matt Johns was a 6.

I appreciate you have said what would do with Tomkins but in real terms it is not realistic if we sign another half. We simply cannot wish players like Roberts away, Phelps we can but not Roberts. The debate is not what we do with Tomkins it is about who we bring into the team as a half not what we do with Tomkins.

I am stunned you can claim a 2 year age gap is irrellivant especially given Longs increasing history of injury, Players like Menzies are the exception not the rule, he has been a superb pro and that is why his body is holding up, the same cannot be said for Long, and the results af this are there to see.

Long may not be the coach but he is or whoever we bring into the team as the half will be expected to be the onfield coach, Long is not well liked with the Wigan lads, he has some friends of the older guard but in the main he is not well liked. It is crucial for a pivot and leader to have the respect of all his players, Long in my opinion will not have time to earn this like he did coming through and developing as he did as a young lad signed from Widnes.

Well there in ends the debate then. Long is after a 2 year deal.

The whole post falls down on Melling being mentioned as a class fullback.

He's not as good as what we currently have.

Fullback isn't an issue for me at the moment. We could do better but a halfback and 2 props needs sorting out first over the next 18 months before we even start worrying about a fullback.

Outisde of Webb and Hodgson i don't think theres a really top draw fullback in the whole league.

Wellens

although hes appeared woefully inadequate at international level recently

Greenshields is better than Wellens.

forgot about him!

Ok the list i mentioned are W/C, Great and Good Fullbacks, better then our attempt at playing players who aren't made for that position.

All I'm saying is the top 5 have, players who are made to play that position, teams like us, Hull FC, Wakefield, Bradford are all playing players who they thing are good at it, but are actually quite poor. TBH

Why sort them first, our defence is good/superb on the night, we'll poor in attack. It's speaks for it's self, how often are Wellens,Greenshields,Webb involved in nearly every single try? Ok Briscoe and Melling aren't as good in attack, but the two of them sure know what they are doing in defence.

Them five players it's very rare the ball goes to ground on the kick down field, with us it's very rare it's taken on the full, it's an extra 10-15metres each kick, makes a hell of a difference over a game.

Sign a young, talented FB now, whilst the team bonds. new right wing partnership, new young half-back, new young left winger, right time to bond the whole back line, rather then introducing someone again further down the line. Create a back-line which won't be boken up for a few seasons, only Carmont to be replaced if we did.