the point i think cru is trying to make is that as pepe mentioned its a small minority of people who are still bitter most have accepted and moved on.

the point is there is no need to inflame the now neutral fans. if its just one or two muppets let them have their drip and ignore them. by stirring $hit that may as you put it cause offence you risk turning the fans who'd given up worrying about back to being part of the minority.

I'm not bitter that Crusaders were given a franchise and the team I support weren't.

I am disappointed that the RFL may have blown another chance to develop the game in Wales, by rushing in a top-line team ahead of the development of a grass-roots base. I want a successful Welsh team (or two) in the top flight of British RL. I don't want Crusaders to fail. I worry that they might.

I also was, and am, angry that the RFL published its criteria for licence qualification, and then appeared to ignore it. I would rather the RFL said that "we, in conjunction with our broadcasting partners, want a Welsh team in SL", instead of claiming that Leigh's stadium didn't count as it wasn't open, their youth development didn't count as it was done by Miners and Easts, and Widnes' stable financial management didn't count because the previous administration had gone bust. But that's not bitterness at Crusaders, its frustration with the RFL.

Given that franchising is here and will be back on the agenda in 18 months, the questionmarks over the licensing process are part of the future, not dwelling in the past.

You may think I don't feel your pain but I do, honestly. Like I said the Celtic Warriors (the best team in Wales and the only true region) was shat on by the WRU, like all rugby in Bridgend is, and is forgotten. Same applies to the Bridgend Ravens who recently got relegated out of a top division which they have been in for many many years and have been champions and produced many welsh stars and British and irish lions star.

And Cardiff City have messed up their premiership hopes yet again. Which is extremely fustrating because they do it every year.

But it was a wrong one - I don't mean Celtic. I mean the licences. I want to see them abolished and a new approach - back to P&R but looking at the way the RFU is supporting a new second tier of pro-rugby and increasing P&R by reducing its size.

The Warriors is a good reason why abolishing P&R is a bad idea! Crowds in the Magners League continue to fall as most of the games are utterly meaningless. The Welsh were right to go to regions (i am a closet Scarlets follower) but the league itself should have been integrated into the English set-up or a new European league.

FWIW, I would amalgamate the French Elite RL into the Championship/SL but retain P&R, increase the Championship cap so clubs can prepare better for SL and reduce the size of SL. If Celtic get in and not Widnes, fair enough. At least they are there for playing reasons (and yes, in fairness as you came second, you deserved to go up).

There are sad and bitter fans at every club. Don't tar all of us with the same brush.

And isn't it sad that more time is spent on the Celtic board talking about attendances instead of the rugby!

Excellent post. Not convinced about the "broadcasting partners" bit, but I have no doubts whatsoever that we were all after a single franchise spot whilst one was going to be awarded to either Toulouse or Celtic. FWIW, I said as soon as we went into administration we wouldn't get a licence and the RFL should have been honest and told us so from the beginning!

The general concensus around our way is that Fev will never get into SL while Cas and Wakey are in because of the proximity of the three clubs. Assuming that both clubs get new grounds or at least share one. What is your thoughts on Widnes getting into SL bearing in mind that Wire, Saints and Widnes are in even nearer proximity than the three Yorks sides.

I think deep down the RFL believe there are too many Yorkshire sides and would like to get rid of either Wakefield or Castleford. Tony Rea used to talk about that a lot. However, their problem is that to throw out a club on the grounds of location would be illegal as it falls foul of competitions law (there is a strong case for saying licences do anyway).

I feel given the set up in Widnes, if we manage to win the GF and the NRC either this year or next, the pressure on the RFL to put us in will be too strong to resist (probably at the expense of Wakefield or Salford). It will not change my opinion one iota. I really believe the RFL have this seriously wrong.

I should point out that I would rather Widnes be competitive in the league they are in than struggle. We aren't even a credible Championship conternder at the moment

I for one thought that when you got relegated four seasons ago in 11th place the RFL got it wrong for me they should have kept you and Leigh in and added to it with Cas and Catalans. By doing so we would have got where we are today just a bit sooner thats all. I think that there is still a lot of support for you in SL now the problem is for you as I see it is that unless as you say either us or Cas plus Salford go then it might be difficult for you. AS I see it I dont think that they have invited the french team into NL1 for a laugh so long as its not at our expense good luck to you