Joined: Mar 30 2002 Posts: 25689 Location: The posh end of Newton
Matt23 wrote:a) Brilliant use of the phuck . b) I'm going to listen to you after your Froch Taylor predictions, but do you really think Mosely is better than Pacquiao?
Mosley is massive, hits hard and is a very good technical boxer. If he lands, he knocks Pac out. If you watch the Hatton-Pac figh again, Hatton rocked Pac in round two with a straight right. Mosley hits harder than Hatton.
[quote="Meyt N Prater Pie"]I think I hate wigan.[/quote]
Joined: Dec 05 2001 Posts: 25122 Location: Aleph Green
Matt23 wrote:a) Brilliant use of the phuck . b) I'm going to listen to you after your Froch Taylor predictions, but do you really think Mosely is better than Pacquiao?
It's not necessarily that Mosley is better than Pac (although there's an argument that he is) - he's just bigger. A lot bigger. I mean, Margarito is a HUGE welter, but Sugar kicked him around the ring like a football (bearing in mind as well that Margo was fighting with loaded wraps). He has fast and extremely heavy hands and it takes a nuclear weapon to crack his chin. Cotto beat him mainly because he has a first rate jab and he managed to out-work Mosley (although Sugar was unusually lethargic that night and nowhere near the fighter that was throwing machine-gun leather vs Plasteritio).
I'm not saying that Pac can't win, but there's a world of difference between knocking over Diaz, a shot and weight-drained Oscar, punch-shy Hatton and Mosley - who could conceivably enter the ring not far short of Super Middle. For a start - Mosley will hit back and with plenty behind it. As good as Pac is - he can't miracle away his own physical limitations. At the end of the day he's a blown up 128-pound fighter. Yes, he has freakish power - but by moving up he's putting himself in the way of guys who think nothing of trading with and KTFO fighters who have an extra forty pounds of wallop behind them. These are people who've been in with killers like Vargas and Felix Trinidad. Christ, I shudder to think what Trinidad would do to Pac. Probably knock his head onto the moon, I should think.
TBH, I'm not even sure Pac can survive at this current weight. Don't forget that neither Oscar nor Hatton caught him with anything meaningful. Moving up's not just about being able to hit harder - you have to be able to TAKE the stuff these guys hand out. Could Manny defeat prime Oscar, who could bang with the best of them (think of the way he smashed JCC around the ring - twice)? I have my doubts.
Roach is smart. Already he's trying to intice Cotto into a catchweight fight at 142. Cotto can't fight at that weight. He looked like a wraith in his last days at JW. Cotto at 147 is a whole different proposition.
Joined: Dec 05 2001 Posts: 25122 Location: Aleph Green
General Zod. wrote:That would be a fair assessment if the fight followed that path.
However, if Calzaghe gets caught like he did against Jones or Kessler, then he wouldn't be let out of trouble cos Froch punches considerably harder than either of them (even though the vast majority of boxing fans would not rate Froch anywhere near as good as either).
I doubt that Froch hits harder than Kessler. TBH, I doubt he hits harder than Jones. Yes, he's starched a few people in his career - but who were they? It's only in his last two fights that he's faced genuine opposition. He couldn't put Pascal away and he found it very difficult to stop Taylor (who is a middleweight).
Frochy is not a one-punch KO artist. He's an accumulation puncher. Like Margarito.
Before retiring Calzaghe was on the slide. His punch resistance was going - as evinced by consecutive knockdowns. If he entered the ring no chinnier than the Jones fight he might be put down again - but I can't see Froch pressing home the advantage. Calzaghe has always been a super-fast recoverer. I see a twelve-round fight in which Froch's occasional big rounds are outweighed by the ones in which he is consistently beaten to the punch and made to look a bit foolish. Comfortable Calzaghe win. I'm not sh!tting on Froch, here. Calzaghe is just a better fighter.
Green-Bute appears to have fallen through and Green may be Froch's next opponent. Good for him. Green is well within his ability to beat. If I were him I'd milk the belt for all it's worth (Froch is 31, after all) before going out - death or glory - against Kessler or Hopkins (in either he'd be a big underdog).
Hatton beat a 36 year old, who had only fought once in 3 years was it? wow. Other than that he has laboured to wins against no bodies, and then embarrased twice against proper boxers
Wigan RLFC - The Biggest Laughing stock in the history of Rugby League.
Eurob0y wrote:Hatton beat a 36 year old, who had only fought once in 3 years was it? wow. Other than that he has laboured to wins against no bodies, and then embarrased twice against proper boxers
Castillo, Vince Phillips, Collazo, Urango are nobodies? You clearly know as much about boxing as you do about decent guitar players.
King Monkey wrote:Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
Joined: Dec 05 2001 Posts: 25122 Location: Aleph Green
Could you please change m wrote:Castillo, Vince Phillips, Collazo, Urango are nobodies? You clearly know as much about boxing as you do about decent guitar players.
Let's be honest here - Castillo was at the end of his career. Certainly not the Castillo that fought ... say ... Corrales. Collazo was a good fighter - but not P4P-top-10 material. Whilst Urango is a huge hitter, he is also a limited fighter. Again - not top ten. Not even top twenty. Phillips was another good fighter without ever being outstanding. Ditto Carlos Maussa and perhaps Lazcano.
Hatton's record is a good one, but not great. I give him props for beating Tszyu, who whilst on the downward slope career-wise remained an extremely dangerous opponent with wrecking balls for fists.
Mugwump wrote:Let's be honest here - Castillo was at the end of his career. Certainly not the Castillo that fought ... say ... Corrales. Collazo was a good fighter - but not P4P-top-10 material. Whilst Urango is a huge hitter, he is also a limited fighter. Again - not top ten. Not even top twenty. Phillips was another good fighter without ever being outstanding. Ditto Carlos Maussa and perhaps Lazcano.
Hatton's record is a good one, but not great. I give him props for beating Tszyu, who whilst on the downward slope career-wise remained an extremely dangerous opponent with wrecking balls for fists.
Castillo may have been at the end of his career, butto KO him in 4 and break his ribs in the process takes some doing. I would agree with the assesment of Collazo, Urango is extremely underrated and a beast of a welterweight, I still don't think Hattons gets the credit he deserves for that win. Likewise the Phillips win, lets not forget he was the first man to beat Kostya.
Hatton IMO like so many British fighters was held back far too long by Warren, I think Hatton was ready for a world title shot maybe 2 years prior to fighting Kostya. His boxing skills were at their peak, as was his chin.
Any way Hatton's time as gone, Jamie Moore will fill the void soon enough, albeit briefly as he's 31
King Monkey wrote:Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
Joined: Mar 05 2003 Posts: 4787 Location: Everywhere
Mugwump wrote:It's not necessarily that Mosley is better than Pac (although there's an argument that he is) - he's just bigger. A lot bigger. I mean, Margarito is a HUGE welter, but Sugar kicked him around the ring like a football (bearing in mind as well that Margo was fighting with loaded wraps). He has fast and extremely heavy hands and it takes a nuclear weapon to crack his chin. Cotto beat him mainly because he has a first rate jab and he managed to out-work Mosley (although Sugar was unusually lethargic that night and nowhere near the fighter that was throwing machine-gun leather vs Plasteritio).
I'm not saying that Pac can't win, but there's a world of difference between knocking over Diaz, a shot and weight-drained Oscar, punch-shy Hatton and Mosley - who could conceivably enter the ring not far short of Super Middle. For a start - Mosley will hit back and with plenty behind it. As good as Pac is - he can't miracle away his own physical limitations. At the end of the day he's a blown up 128-pound fighter. Yes, he has freakish power - but by moving up he's putting himself in the way of guys who think nothing of trading with and KTFO fighters who have an extra forty pounds of wallop behind them. These are people who've been in with killers like Vargas and Felix Trinidad. Christ, I shudder to think what Trinidad would do to Pac. Probably knock his head onto the moon, I should think.
TBH, I'm not even sure Pac can survive at this current weight. Don't forget that neither Oscar nor Hatton caught him with anything meaningful. Moving up's not just about being able to hit harder - you have to be able to TAKE the stuff these guys hand out. Could Manny defeat prime Oscar, who could bang with the best of them (think of the way he smashed JCC around the ring - twice)? I have my doubts.
Roach is smart. Already he's trying to intice Cotto into a catchweight fight at 142. Cotto can't fight at that weight. He looked like a wraith in his last days at JW. Cotto at 147 is a whole different proposition.
Being able to take a punch does not make you a good fighter though does it??? Hatton and Oscar didn't land anything meaningful because Manny is technically sound, very quick around the ring and evasive, which is why he doesn't need to have a strong chin!
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