So $hite that we beat your team and are currently second in the league with the best SH in the league and the best SR partnership in SL. What makes it funny is that their foreign (just says it all about English players doen't it). While Saints may not have to many overseas they rely heavily on 2 of them in Gidley and Puletua.

I have made my mind up. My comment was about the very average Wigan youngsters, I have not commented about the Saints youngsters or indeed whether Saints have the oldest team.

You said Saints were the oldest team not me, I wouldnt have a clue if Saints was or wasnt. All I said was that most fans wouldnt care less if they had the oldest team in Super League if that meant them sitting on top of the league and regularly winning honours.

I find it amusing that Wigan fans just say that their youngsters are great, without basis or without any facts, and expect everyone to agree. This coming from fans of team that have underperformed for years, have let all their best youngsters go, have won nothing for years and currently lie in 9th place. Yes those youngsters are great

He is not useless in defence. He just needs some coaching to improve certain aspects of his game. At 19 I can accept that he will not be the complete player as of yet but I have seen enough of him to suggest that he will be. (How many games have you seen him play?)He is not useless under the high bomb at all - check the Wakefield highlights for an example. Danny Brough smacked a high bomb right at Ainscough (one of the highest kicks I have seen) and Ainscough (under pressure) took it easily, accelerated forward 20 metres, shrugged off the first player, spun back on the inside to beat the second man and gained a few more metres forward - putting Wigan on the front foot to score a try from a pressure situation and win the game.



Let me place "a lot of tries" into context then for you. 13 tries in just nine super league appearances. The leading try scorer in the league. Some of his tries have been walk in tries but some have not. Some have required a proper wingers finish. Head down and run right on the edge of the touchline. Many wingers these days don't back themselves and come back on the inside. Ainscough does not.

Not to mention how many tries have been walk in tries for Gardener? Exactly.



Do you actually watch Wigan? You don't do you?(Which makes me wonder how you can possibly make these conclusions) Liam Colbon is nothing like the player Ainscough is.

Liam Colbon in 2008 played 18 games more than Ainscough has played this season and Ainscough has:

- Scored more tries (Best in the league)
- Created more tries
- Made more tackle busts (9th best in the league)
- More clean breaks. (Best in the league)

Foolish comparison. Ainscough is currently twice the player Colbon is and has far more potential.



I don't agree but that does not make a difference how good he is.



Confirmed you don't watch Wigan at all. He has much more to his game. He has a sidestep, good vision, neat footwork, a good kicking game, organising the attack and is solid in defence. (Which is impressive given his size). Sam Tomkins is a good player now but has so much more to offer and we will see this as time goes by and he develops into a finer player. To say he does not have much to his game is again foolish.



They have only played nine games of super league and you have already come to this conclusion. Both 19 as well. The Wigan fans certainly don't overrated them. Just see the thread about Sam Tomkins on the cherryandwhite board.



Most Wigan fans do rate him as a player just not as a captain. This is where his criticisms mainly comes from. He is a very good player. An established England international - all the England/GB coaches still pick him.



Again not true. He is a match winner and such a pivital player in the Wigan side. He can create something out of nothing and can offload the ball at any given time. (Albeit he sometimes needs to learn when to do it) Nevertheless another established Great Britain/England international who is one of the best second row forwards in the league and one of the best in England.



If Joel Tomkins is average at best then we have no hope. He was runner up for the young player of the year award last year. I guess all the youngsters in super league then are average.

Paul Prescott and Eamon O'carroll are 2 very promising prop forwards. Probably wont be world beaters but will play a significant part in the future Wigan sides. I see more potential in those two than I do Bryn Hargreaves.

Michael McIlorum needs to go out on loan for a season. He is average at the moment I will confess but again the potential is still there with the lad. He needs to have a loan move agreed like Saints have with Scott Moore.

Harrison Hansen was the top tackler for last season. A solid defender and a strong forward. He ran his blood to water against Catalans. A world beater? No he is not but he is a good squad player and has been at the club since he was 16.

Second, yes, well done. Remind me who's first?

While also relying on Pryce, Long (well, maybe not), Cunningham, Roby, Graham, Wilkin, Wellens etc.

Yes well done, but to say you rely on Wellens, don't make me laugh.

The same Tim Smith that has more try assists to his name than Sean Long?(And Long has played 2 more games than Smith)

Nothing wrong with Colbon, for me no colbon no second place currently.

Talk about some of the most biased Wigan observations that you will ever see. I cant even be bothered tearing that apart. Yes they are so good and that is why you are 9th. However seeing Wigan fans think that Ainscough and Tomkins are Gods gift I will talk about these two, as I cant believe that any unbiased person would even dispute that the others arent average.

I must have missed the two tries from kicks that Ainscough conceeded against Wakefield or was that someone else. I must have also missed the kicks and poor defence against Huddersfield (was that 2 tries as well or was it more?) that cost you the game. I am sure there have been plenty more. I must have missed all the tackles that he misses because he cant tackle.

Out of all these tries I would love to see how many are walk in tries. A try is a try but if Roberts was on that wing I am sure he would have scored that many (Seing as the Wigan players only seem to be capable of passing from right to left and hence never attack on the right). This is just like Chris Ashton all over again, the Wigan fans thought he was great then turned on him for less faults than Ainscough has.

Tomkins has no organisational skills, isnt the best passer and is a poor kicker. In any game that I have seen where Wigan havent easily been on top he has gone missing. He has pace and the most impressive part of his game is his defence, hardly a key requirement for a scrum half. Tomkins is the sort of player that looks good in the reserves constantly dummying and going for glory but struggles in the first team as he cannot do this at a higher level. I am sorry but I just see a lot more of the all round skills required at scrum half in Myler and Eastmond.

Looking at the posts above yours I think someone has shown every "point" he made to be bollox. In summary, "I'm a saints fan, were the bestest at everything and everyone else is crap".

Quote:Talk about some of the most biased Wigan observations that you will ever see. My post is not biased. It is honest. Can't say the same for yourself though. Quote:I cant even be bothered tearing that apart. Why? Because you can't? Because you know I'm right? Quote: Yes they are so good Thanks for admitting that. Quote:and that is why you are 9th. Salford have one of the best talents in super league Richie Myler - yet find themselves lower than Wigan. What is your point? A few talented youngsters don't make a team. Again you love repeating idiotic points. Wigan are 9th in the table yes - but there first win of the season came when their two youngsters Sean Ainscough and Sam Tomkins were playing and lifted the side. Quote:However seeing Wigan fans think that Ainscough and Tomkins are Gods gift You didn't read any of my post at all did you? http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?t=407769 Above is a thread about Sam Tomkins on the Wigan board. How you have come to the conclusion we believe Tomkins (and Ainscough) are gods gift is beyond me. Quote:I must have missed the two tries from kicks that Ainscough conceeded against Wakefield or was that someone else. I acknowledged Ainscough had many areas in his game to work on. See - Quote: He just needs some coaching to improve certain aspects of his game. Quote:I must have also missed the kicks and poor defence against Huddersfield Two mistakes against Huddersfield, Yes I've got that - is that it? A 19 year old makes a couple of mistakes in his first 9 games for a club and he is already an average player? Even though is the top try scorer and top for clean breaks , an early candidate for Young player of the year? Clutching at straws. Quote:was that 2 tries as well or was it more?) No it wasn't. Quote:that cost you the game Ainscough did not cost us the Huddersfield game. Our lack of execution cost us the game. Not Ainscough's mistakes - the game was gone when that happened. There was little time left. The lad will win more games for us than he will "cost us" games. Quote:I am sure there have been plenty more. I've watched Wigan home and away all season and I can't think of any. Please name them or can you not be bothered? Quote: I must have missed all the tackles that he misses because he cant tackle. What a lame point. Tackling is not an issue with Ainscough at all. His positioning at times close to the line (mainly his height) being the only issue in his game. Quote:Out of all these tries I would love to see how many are walk in tries. I can't remember how all his tries were scored but trust me not all were walk ins. Some required some real skill to get over the line. (The Saints home game springs to mind). As long as he can finish tries that is all that matters. Calderwood was considered one of the best yet could not finish tries. As mentioned he would come back on the inside rather than back himself for pace and take them on down the toucline. Quote:A try is a try but if Roberts was on that wing I am sure he would have scored that many Amos Roberts is a fine player and I agree he probably would have done. Quote:This is just like Chris Ashton all over again, the Wigan fans thought he was great then turned on him for less faults than Ainscough has. Chris Ashton was a great player. But as soon as Union came sniffing around he lost interest in rugby league. He didn't have the right attitude either. Quote:Tomkins has no organisational skills, Take it from someone who has seen him more times than yourself. Yes he does. Quote: isnt the best passer and is a poor kicker. He is a very good kicker - check out the Saints game for example. Quote:In any game that I have seen where Wigan havent easily been on top he has gone missing. Only one game I have watched he has gone missing - Leeds away. Please name the games you are referring to. Quote:He has pace and the most impressive part of his game is his defence, hardly a key requirement for a scrum half. It's key for any player in any position in rugby league to be able to defend. Any player that can't is a weak leak in the defensive line. The stand off/Scrum half tend to be that player. The fact that Sam isn't is fantastic. Quote:Tomkins is the sort of player that looks good in the reserves constantly dummying and going for glory but struggles in the first team as he cannot do this at a higher level. Watch the rest of the Wakefield highlights seems as you love to make reference to it. You will see him dummying/darting around the defense and running Wakefield all over the place. At a high level he does not have a problem and there is much potential to see a lot more from him. But give the lad a break he has only played 9 super league games. No Wigan fan is going over the top in regards to either Sean Ainscough or Sam Tomkins (Check the board for proof!!!) but they see enough potential to suggest that they may become class players. Quote:I am sorry but I just see a lot more of the all round skills required at scrum half in Myler and Eastmond. Both have their strengths and Weaknesses. Just like Sam. Time will tell.

Quote:Talk about some of the most biased Wigan observations that you will ever see. My post is not biased. It is honest. Can't say the same for yourself though. Quote:I cant even be bothered tearing that apart. Why? Because you can't? Because you know I'm right? Quote: Yes they are so good Thanks for admitting that. Quote:and that is why you are 9th. Salford have one of the best talents in super league Richie Myler - yet find themselves lower than Wigan. What is your point? A few talented youngsters don't make a team. Again you love repeating idiotic points. Wigan are 9th in the table yes - but there first win of the season came when their two youngsters Sean Ainscough and Sam Tomkins were playing and lifted the side. Quote:However seeing Wigan fans think that Ainscough and Tomkins are Gods gift You didn't read any of my post at all did you? http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?t=407769 Above is a thread about Sam Tomkins on the Wigan board. How you have come to the conclusion we believe Tomkins (and Ainscough) are gods gift is beyond me. Quote:I must have missed the two tries from kicks that Ainscough conceeded against Wakefield or was that someone else. I acknowledged Ainscough had many areas in his game to work on. See - Quote: He just needs some coaching to improve certain aspects of his game. Quote:I must have also missed the kicks and poor defence against Huddersfield Two mistakes against Huddersfield, Yes I've got that - is that it? A 19 year old makes a couple of mistakes in his first 9 games for a club and he is already an average player? Even though is the top try scorer and top for clean breaks , an early candidate for Young player of the year? Clutching at straws. Quote:was that 2 tries as well or was it more?) No it wasn't. Quote:that cost you the game Ainscough did not cost us the Huddersfield game. Our lack of execution cost us the game. Not Ainscough's mistakes - the game was gone when that happened. There was little time left. The lad will win more games for us than he will "cost us" games. Quote:I am sure there have been plenty more. I've watched Wigan home and away all season and I can't think of any. Please name them or can you not be bothered? Quote: I must have missed all the tackles that he misses because he cant tackle. What a lame point. Tackling is not an issue with Ainscough at all. His positioning at times close to the line (mainly his height) being the only issue in his game. Quote:Out of all these tries I would love to see how many are walk in tries. I can't remember how all his tries were scored but trust me not all were walk ins. Some required some real skill to get over the line. (The Saints home game springs to mind). As long as he can finish tries that is all that matters. Calderwood was considered one of the best yet could not finish tries. As mentioned he would come back on the inside rather than back himself for pace and take them on down the toucline. Quote:A try is a try but if Roberts was on that wing I am sure he would have scored that many Amos Roberts is a fine player and I agree he probably would have done. Quote:This is just like Chris Ashton all over again, the Wigan fans thought he was great then turned on him for less faults than Ainscough has. Chris Ashton was a great player. But as soon as Union came sniffing around he lost interest in rugby league. He didn't have the right attitude either. Quote:Tomkins has no organisational skills, Take it from someone who has seen him more times than yourself. Yes he does. Quote: isnt the best passer and is a poor kicker. He is a very good kicker - check out the Saints game for example. Quote:In any game that I have seen where Wigan havent easily been on top he has gone missing. Only one game I have watched he has gone missing - Leeds away. Please name the games you are referring to. Quote:He has pace and the most impressive part of his game is his defence, hardly a key requirement for a scrum half. It's key for any player in any position in rugby league to be able to defend. Any player that can't is a weak leak in the defensive line. The stand off/Scrum half tend to be that player. The fact that Sam isn't is fantastic. Quote:Tomkins is the sort of player that looks good in the reserves constantly dummying and going for glory but struggles in the first team as he cannot do this at a higher level. Watch the rest of the Wakefield highlights seems as you love to make reference to it. You will see him dummying/darting around the defense and running Wakefield all over the place. At a high level he does not have a problem and there is much potential to see a lot more from him. But give the lad a break he has only played 9 super league games. No Wigan fan is going over the top in regards to either Sean Ainscough or Sam Tomkins (Check the board for proof!!!) but they see enough potential to suggest that they may become class players. Quote:I am sorry but I just see a lot more of the all round skills required at scrum half in Myler and Eastmond. Both have their strengths and Weaknesses. Just like Sam. Time will tell.