Robbo4 wrote:Whilst I agree to an extent his all round game has been really poor IMO. His passing is slow and is literally to the nearest man everytime. His long kicking has been no better than we have had for the last 10 years and his short kicking is more about luck than judgement, I'd say R.Horne has a better short kicking game.
I think its difficult to say tbh when the teams overall tactics are poor. We mis-use our forwards which means they cant lay the platform. We have an international hooker that plays for 10 minutes and then goes missing for 70. We have excellent outside backs that dont see the ball. We've scored a lot of tries from Thorman and Hornes short kicking game early in the season. We make too many mistakes meaning Thorman has to kick too often from deep. I think personally if Agar gets his tactics right we will see the best of Thorman. I saw enough of him early in the season to know that he isnt fantastic but he can do a job for us and we can challenge. Matthew Head and Adam Dykes both looked great when doing the basic easy things well, like passing it wide to Manu and Yeaman. Thorman can do that easily too but needs to be part of the game plan.
Joined: Oct 15 2003 Posts: 53839 Location: North Yorkshire
Big Dave T wrote:I think its difficult to say tbh when the teams overall tactics are poor. We mis-use our forwards which means they cant lay the platform. We have an international hooker that plays for 10 minutes and then goes missing for 70. We have excellent outside backs that dont see the ball. We've scored a lot of tries from Thorman and Hornes short kicking game early in the season. We make too many mistakes meaning Thorman has to kick too often from deep. I think personally if Agar gets his tactics right we will see the best of Thorman. I saw enough of him early in the season to know that he isnt fantastic but he can do a job for us and we can challenge. Matthew Head and Adam Dykes both looked great when doing the basic easy things well, like passing it wide to Manu and Yeaman. Thorman can do that easily too but needs to be part of the game plan.
When we are on our game in the fowards then the halves and backs can score tries and be creative, the Cats and Bulls game showed that. Trouble is when we are not on our game we have nobody to try and lift and inspire the side and we are then bloody rubbish.
PAUL M wrote:When we are on our game in the fowards then the halves and backs can score tries and be creative, the Cats and Bulls game showed that. Trouble is when we are not on our game we have nobody to try and lift and inspire the side and we are then bloody rubbish.
Agar needs to motivate and inspire in his Leadership/coaching. Where's the passion? he's a poor leader.
Joined: Jan 23 2006 Posts: 15980 Location: Boulevard with my balls of steel!
Big Dave T wrote:I think its difficult to say tbh when the teams overall tactics are poor. We mis-use our forwards which means they cant lay the platform. We have an international hooker that plays for 10 minutes and then goes missing for 70. We have excellent outside backs that dont see the ball. We've scored a lot of tries from Thorman and Hornes short kicking game early in the season. We make too many mistakes meaning Thorman has to kick too often from deep. I think personally if Agar gets his tactics right we will see the best of Thorman. I saw enough of him early in the season to know that he isnt fantastic but he can do a job for us and we can challenge. Matthew Head and Adam Dykes both looked great when doing the basic easy things well, like passing it wide to Manu and Yeaman. Thorman can do that easily too but needs to be part of the game plan.
It cant be the gameplan that Thorman isn't allowed to throw a miss-out pass? Or a long flat pass to get it wider quicker? Or that his short kicks have to go to the wrong part of the in-goal area? TBH he is playing exactly like I expected him to, which is why I didn't want him in the first place but understood why the club took him for 1 year while they search for a genuine SH. If a genuine SH isn't signed for next season though I will be beyond P1ssed off
Joined: Oct 15 2003 Posts: 53839 Location: North Yorkshire
Big Dave T wrote:Agar needs to motivate and inspire in his Leadership/coaching. Where's the passion? he's a poor leader.
Where is the passion in anyone at our club, players and coaches. Players should not need too much motivating tbh, against Rovers we turned up for the last 25 mins and nearly won the bloody game
Robbo4 wrote:It cant be the gameplan that Thorman isn't allowed to throw a miss-out pass? Or a long flat pass to get it wider quicker? Or that his short kicks have to go to the wrong part of the in-goal area? TBH he is playing exactly like I expected him to, which is why I didn't want him in the first place but understood why the club took him for 1 year while they search for a genuine SH. If a genuine SH isn't signed for next season though I will be beyond P1ssed off
Do you think 5 drives and a kick isnt the gameplan?
Do you think 1 drive right, 1 drive left, 1 drive right, 1 drive left, 1 drive right and kick isnt what they go through in training?
After watching it for 10 games or so it cant just be an accident. If the gameplan was to throw a pass or two and Thorman didnt wouldnt Agar get the message out to him to do it?
PAUL M wrote:Where is the passion in anyone at our club, players and coaches. Players should not need too much motivating tbh, against Rovers we turned up for the last 25 mins and nearly won the bloody game
The job of a leader like Agar is to build the team spirit, create a great environment etc that the players enjoy being part of which in turn leads to people wanting to play for each other which in turn leads to motivation etc too. If Agar has lost the dressing room because the players dont agree with his tactics i can understand their lack of motivation. It cant be very nice knowing that youre going to go out there and get beaten and then be given stick by the fans because your coach is a numpty.
Joined: Feb 20 2007 Posts: 10540 Location: Hunting Gopher
Big Dave T wrote:I think its difficult to say tbh when the teams overall tactics are poor. We mis-use our forwards which means they cant lay the platform. We have an international hooker that plays for 10 minutes and then goes missing for 70. We have excellent outside backs that dont see the ball. We've scored a lot of tries from Thorman and Hornes short kicking game early in the season. We make too many mistakes meaning Thorman has to kick too often from deep. I think personally if Agar gets his tactics right we will see the best of Thorman. I saw enough of him early in the season to know that he isnt fantastic but he can do a job for us and we can challenge. Matthew Head and Adam Dykes both looked great when doing the basic easy things well, like passing it wide to Manu and Yeaman. Thorman can do that easily too but needs to be part of the game plan.
So it seems you think that Thorman is struggling because of the team's deficiencies and tactics, but Berrigan's hit and miss form is his own fault then?
Not sure that's fair TBH. Strikes me as expecting less from players because they simply aren't as good, despite the fact that it's just as much down to them to produce the goods.
Thorman has gone missing just as much as Berrigan so far this season, you can usually find him hiding half a dozen yards behind the forward at 1st receiver from the PTB. Regardless of ability, tactics, etc, I personally just think the supposed focal point of the team should be a little bit more keen to get involved.
Joined: Jan 23 2006 Posts: 15980 Location: Boulevard with my balls of steel!
Big Dave T wrote:Do you think 5 drives and a kick isnt the gameplan?
Do you think 1 drive right, 1 drive left, 1 drive right, 1 drive left, 1 drive right and kick isnt what they go through in training?
After watching it for 10 games or so it cant just be an accident. If the gameplan was to throw a pass or two and Thorman didnt wouldnt Agar get the message out to him to do it?
Boring rugby consistently cannot be an accident.
Fact is if a player is in the "red zone" and sees an overlap he will probably do what his instincts tell him. Unfortunately Thormans instincts usually entail kicking it (because his passing is woeful) when its not on and consequently our players are not ready for it. I'd imagine the boring 5 drives and a kick stuff is for working the ball away from our line and they have more freedom nearer the try line, we just dont have the personnel to do it.
carl_spackler wrote:So it seems you think that Thorman is struggling because of the team's deficiencies and tactics, but Berrigan's hit and miss form is his own fault then?
Not sure that's fair TBH. Strikes me as expecting less from players because they simply aren't as good, despite the fact that it's just as much down to them to produce the goods.
They have different jobs though. My expectations of Thorman are that he spreads the ball about and he is coached not to. My expectation of Berrigan is that he plays like the world class hooker that he is and that he inspires his team mates etc.
I od have different expectations of each player because one is an average 7 and one is one of the top 3 or 4 hookers in the world.
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