jonh wrote:Even ultimate pro's like Hanley, Bell and Edwards used player power when Dorahay was in charge, its a natural reaction in most walks of life if you think the person dishing out the orders is incompetant, and rightly so in my opinion.
If this is true then they are not "ultimate pros". They show charactersitics of babies who can't get their own way, and have gone down in my estimation.
Now they are coaches, presumably they would "understand" players under them reacting in a similar way?
Players are not paid to express opinions on the coach.
Frankly there is not ONE player in the current Wigan team who holds the moral right to question Nobby. He has achieved far more than any of the overpaid wasters that we currently have in our squad.
The Communist Cap - dragging down success and aspiration to the levels of those who cba.
Joined: Jul 04 2005 Posts: 903 Location: Formerly of Whelley via The River Caves, but now in the next best thing, Chorley!
Pemps wrote:Serious question, and I'm not knocking your info, but are the players 12 years old?
Sadly I think that's probably true
If some of the players are looking to undermine BN then what better way to have a secret name calling clique to belong to.
'Do you remember when we had that meeting in Orlando? We talked about how we were knocked out the previous year by Leeds. And at the end, I asked you one question. "Do you want to be a semi-final team? Or do you want to do something special?" You all said you wanted to win. But talking is easy – it needed you to believe. It needed you to work hard – harder than you had – and make sacrifices. You did all that. you worked for each other. You stuck together when it was tough. And because of your efforts, you sit here tonight as champions. I'm proud of you. Be proud of yourselves. You've done something special.' Shaun Wane's post-Grand Final speech. 5th October 2013.
Joined: Jul 04 2005 Posts: 903 Location: Formerly of Whelley via The River Caves, but now in the next best thing, Chorley!
Andy Greg wrote:Think they must be i think his man is one of the backroom staff the Noble has upset and just wants to cause a bit of upset for him. Player i have spoken to dont call him that some do call him a few names but who can say the have never called there boss a few names behind their back.
My source has nothing but respect for BN as he had a say in whether they got the job or not. They do no hold a grudge against him.
They were just reporting the kind of thing that is going on behind the scenes at the moment.
'Do you remember when we had that meeting in Orlando? We talked about how we were knocked out the previous year by Leeds. And at the end, I asked you one question. "Do you want to be a semi-final team? Or do you want to do something special?" You all said you wanted to win. But talking is easy – it needed you to believe. It needed you to work hard – harder than you had – and make sacrifices. You did all that. you worked for each other. You stuck together when it was tough. And because of your efforts, you sit here tonight as champions. I'm proud of you. Be proud of yourselves. You've done something special.' Shaun Wane's post-Grand Final speech. 5th October 2013.
jonh wrote:Even ultimate pro's like Hanley, Bell and Edwards used player power when Dorahay was in charge, its a natural reaction in most walks of life if you think the person dishing out the orders is incompetant, and rightly so in my opinion.
But I think John Dorahy was an extreme example. His incompetence was threatening to destroy a superb team.
With Noble it's not so clear cut. His tactics are nonexistant, but the team is also poor. Only the odd individual has occasionally shone during Noble's tenure.
The idea of them all giving him stick the moment his back is turned is quite amusing - the same is done with most of the players by the fans, and for better reasons: i.e. the fans feel badly let down, whereas with the players you get the feeling it's because they're being bitchy.
There is, I think, a very childish element creeping in at Wigan at player level. When IL read the Riot Act to them after the Huddersfield game last season - the incident that is often credited with turning the season around - several of them went whingeing to the press, instead of taking it on the chin like men. Any time a player is dropped - particularly one of the younger guys (who in former decades wouldn't even share the same dressing room with the first team), they complain to anyone who'll listen, knowing full well that word will get out. It doesn't surprise me entirely. I think there are a lot of negative influences around the fringes of Wigan RL these days. The guy who leads the 'we hate IL' brigade on the other website does it because his mate was released by the club. Others - some of them in the coaching set-up - stick their oar in because they see something in it for themselves - either in the form of job protection or job opportunity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Nobby is undeserving of criticism. Far from it. But when we hear new members of the coaching team at Wigan saying that the entire culture at Wigan needs to change, then I think it's pretty clear what they mean.
The players may not like their boss. But as other posters have said, the vast majority of us don't - and we don't get the consolation of enormous salaries for doing the thing we love. As a job-lot, they need to man up.
Joined: Jan 27 2005 Posts: 2687 Location: Westhoughton
Cruncher wrote:But I think John Dorahy was an extreme example. His incompetence was threatening to destroy a superb team.
With Noble it's not so clear cut. His tactics are nonexistant, but the team is also poor. Only the odd individual has occasionally shone during Noble's tenure.
The idea of them all giving him stick the moment his back is turned is quite amusing - the same is done with most of the players by the fans, and for better reasons: i.e. the fans feel badly let down, whereas with the players you get the feeling it's because they're being bitchy.
There is, I think, a very childish element creeping in at Wigan at player level. When IL read the Riot Act to them after the Huddersfield game last season - the incident that is often credited with turning the season around - several of them went whingeing to the press, instead of taking it on the chin like men. Any time a player is dropped - particularly one of the younger guys (who in former decades wouldn't even share the same dressing room with the first team), they complain to anyone who'll listen, knowing full well that word will get out. It doesn't surprise me entirely. I think there are a lot of negative influences around the fringes of Wigan RL these days. The guy who leads the 'we hate IL' brigade on the other website does it because his mate was released by the club. Others - some of them in the coaching set-up - stick their oar in because they see something in it for themselves - either in the form of job protection or job opportunity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Nobby is undeserving of criticism. Far from it. But when we hear new members of the coaching team at Wigan saying that the entire culture at Wigan needs to change, then I think it's pretty clear what they mean.
The players may not like their boss. But as other posters have said, the vast majority of us don't - and we don't get the consolation of enormous salaries for doing the thing we love. As a job-lot, they need to man up.
Well said
Best Wigan No7 ever [b]Terry Newton Wigan legend RIP[/b]
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
XBrettKennyX wrote:If this is true then they are not "ultimate pros". They show charactersitics of babies who can't get their own way, and have gone down in my estimation.
Now they are coaches, presumably they would "understand" players under them reacting in a similar way?
Surely the Dorahay thing isn't news to you?
Dorahay came in and his methods were just so rubbish a team that had very successful methods in place just rebelled against something that was going to lead to their demise as a force in the competition.
Quote:Players are not paid to express opinions on the coach.
Rubbish. Any coach who doesn't listen to the opinions of his senior pros is an idiot.
He doesn't have to act on them and the coach must retain his authority but are you seriously suggesting the players should act like sheep and do whatever they are told when it is blindingly obvious they are being told to do the wrong thing? That is what was happening under Dorahay. It's the same in any walk of life and in any job if you see things are very wrong with the way things are being run you have a responsibility to do something not meekly comply otherwise you are just as guilty as the person leading you to failure.
The Dorahay episode was an extreme case of player power but it wasn't in the slightest bit out of order IMO because Dorahay had been exposed as being totally useless.
Whether there is the same situation at Wigan now is a completely different question but back then the players prevented that team being ruined.
I also think there is also a big difference between then and now in that back then the players were acting from a position of strength and could point to their success on the field using the methods they were familiar with. They were ultimately proved right. Now while I think Noble is primarily responsible for the dross play the players are not exactly blameless either, so are not in the same position as Edwards and Hanley were and can't claim to have the same sort of moral authority.
Quote:Frankly there is not ONE player in the current Wigan team who holds the moral right to question Nobby. He has achieved far more than any of the overpaid wasters that we currently have in our squad.
See above but at the same time it was widely rumoured last year Noble would not listen to Barrett's suggestions. If true Noble was an idiot.
Dave
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
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