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 Post subject: Turning the Ship Around!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Location: Sorting my Erection out & Helping Conroy With his!
I started watching Wigan R.L about 76ish (1976 that is Not 1876 Like Rogues :wink: ) and watched the club go through a VERY VERY VERY lean patch were any win was regarded as a minor Miracle!
Although very young to appreciate the finer elements of the game I still had my Heroes (Fairbairn, Willicombe etc) and although I enjoyed the game immensely I could sense the Frustration of the Older Fans and their continual harping on about the Glory days of the 40's 50's & 60's!
As a Youngster I still took enjoyment from watching my Team Winning (Occasionally) and although dispappointed at losing would always look to next week to put it right!*** (See further down about the Youngsters of Today)
The obvious Low point being the Relegation in 80 I think there are some interesting Parallels to be drawn between what went on in those late 70's early 80's years with what is happening at the club now.
I mentioned this to another contributor to this board over the weekend and he to thought that the parallels were worth bringing up to provide a "Perspective" on where we are it under IL's Reign as Chairman and what needs to be done in what timescales to turn the club around!

If we take the relegation in 79/80 as the Pivot for our Low point retrospectively then you can see the gradual decline of the club over the proceeding 4/5 years and how it struggled to overcome the loss of it's "Star" players of 4/5 years earlier to that!
IMO this is very much like the position the club found itself in 4/5 years ago where we struggled to overcome the loss of stalwarts like Farrell/Rads/Lam/Cassidy/o'Connor/Smith/Newton etc etc
This also culminated in a relegation battle that this time we were fortunate enough to avoid either through Good luck, good management or whatever your personal Spin on that situation may be.

However

Considering that it took Wigan 4 years from relegation to Reach a "Major" Final (Comparable to today's final as we don't have JPS/Lancs Cup) and 5 years to actually win one with it then being 7 years until our first League success!
I think we often look back and forget the period between 79/80 and 85 when the club turned the Corner so to speak Not by taking One Massive step but a series of Small steps that often worked and sometime didn't!
All of the steps either forward or back added experience to the Boards future decision making until the Major Coup of the employment of Graeme Lowe that Catapulted us to the Forefront of English R.L.

Some of those steps included the Release of our star player to further the Club as a Whole.
The signing of Decent players from other clubs that although Not "Top Drawer" all of the time were better than previous and allowed progression year on year i.s Wendy Whitfield/David Stevenson/Gary Stevens/Henderson Gill etc who in time moved on to make way for the Joe Lydon's, Andy Goodway's, Andy Gregory's, Ellery Hanley's and Martin offiahs that we all too quickly remember sometimes at the expense of the "Stepping Stone" players.
The retainment of Home grown players i.e Edwards/Wane/Hampson and then onto the Dermott's/Lucas/Clarkes etc.

If you then Compare this to our situation in 2006 using it as a Pivot similar to 1980 (And coincedentally for me my son is comaprably the same age I was at this point (ish), to me it shows how we must show patience and understanding that "Rome Can't be Built in a Day" and a realisation that it will take time and draw Comfort from the Paralells of Yester year!

If we reached a Major Final in 2010 that would be comaparable to the "Great" Lindsay Regime!
If we Won a Major Final by 2011 that would be comparable to the "Great" Lindsay Regime!
If we won a League title by 2013 Guess what, same timescales as last time!

And there are some encouraging signs for me that show we are on the right track to achieve these things and you know what, maybe even quicker than last time!
Bearing in Mind IL and the current Board will have to do all of this whilst also managing the "Salary Cap" situation I think it's even more critical that we as Fans are patient and understanding that often they are "Hamstrung" by the rules that they, along with all other clubs, have to work in.

If some of our decisions over the last 12 months and next 12 months take us along a similar road to 20 years ago I for one will be more than Happy.

Since 2006 I believe Year on year we have steadily improved the Quality of our squad and with the capture and retainment of Carmont/Gleeson/Leaulia/Richards/Feka/Roberts/Riddell and the solidity of Home grown existing players like O'Loughlin/Hock/Hansen/Prescott and the emergence of the Youngsters such as Ainscough/Sam Tomkins/ J Tomkins possibly Goulding and throw in 1/2 dozen other excellent prospects I belive that IL has in 18 months and certainly by the beginning of 2010 built a far stronger Core to the Club than the Wigan club had done in the 2 years on from relegation in 1980!


The coaching situation is again a bit of a Proverbial "Hot Potato" but the Move from Fairbairn/Bamford to Murphy to Clarke/McCinness and then Lowe was a 7 year period and each one built the Next Step!
Yes it may have been possible to go straight from a Bamford to a Lowe, But Would a Lowe or Jack Gibson have taken that risk of coming to Wigan in 82 without the steps that Bamford/Murphy etc took to raise our profile and standing in the game over the previous 5/6 seasons?

Not all of the decisions made by the board were the right ones and certainly there were a number of high profile mistakes/Fallouts etc However the Club (Lindsay & The Board) never lost sight of the Longer term goal and despite Ups & Downs moved closer to their goal with small steps rather tan Giant strides!

Paralells

1980 = 2006
Fairbairn = Barrett
Bamford = Noble
Edwards = Tomkins
Recruitment of Better players from other clubs Gill/Stevenson/Stevens = Roberts/Carmont/Gleeson
The retaining of the better current players Pendlebury/Kiss/Stockley = Richards/Tommy/Feka
Looking at lost Home grown players Gregory/Lydon - Gleeson & in fact we have already retained our Better ones in Lockers/Hock/Prescott/J Tomkins etc

The interesting one is the gradual increase in supporters and their Optimism to the New Frontier after a Period in the wilderness!

Will we and the Younger Generation of the Quick Fix Brigade who have given us the support in terms of Numbers be as patient and "Loyal" to enable our current Leaders to achieve as similar as possible results as it's predecessors given the constraints they have to work with?

*** To continue the perspective of the Young from the beginning of the Thread!If you keep telling Kids that things are garbage eventually they will believe it (In reverse they keep hearing about How Good the Premier League is and that's why they are Brain Washed into watching that Garbage!) and I Belive that we msut encourage our younger element to understand that ot wasn't all Cup Final Wins and celebrations in Yester Year.
There were long periods of Down turn in fortunes and believe me they were FAR FAR FAR Worse than what has Happened at Wigan in the last 5 years!
We must encourage them to stay Loayl and Optimistic (DaveO will love that one!) and although I don't want them to do this Blindly I would want them to do it with a Patient Perspective on things not from an Immediate success is possible point of view that we may sometimes give them Harping on about the "Glory Days"!

Now we can all have a moan & we can all Pick holes in what we perceive to be mistakes made by players/coaches and Chairman but instead of all becoming fantasy Chairman and insisting on chopping and changing every 2 minutes (Although if Noble does go mid/end of season I feel 3 1/2 years will be the Right time to go fi the club feel it is the right move!) I feel we should look to Look for the Positives and be patient in the belief that by continualy making the Right "Long Term" moves our success as a club will be better in the future for it rather than insisting we go from Relegation Fodder to Champions in 1 or 2 seasons and understanding that it may take 5 or 6 with the knowledge that the Future after that will be the better for that Patient Buidl up & our foundations so much stronger!

I for one will and look forward to every single "Step" of this road whether it be forward or back!

Because I'm a Wigan Fan, and that's what I do!

Off to Bed now to Think about Our Next Game at Wakey and as Twosevenzero put it!

"Wigan Rugby League Club - It's the 1st thing I think about when I wake up in the Morning and the Last thing I think about Before I go to sleep!"

(Although that might be taking it a bit far! :wink: )






Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock

"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"

[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]

Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"

I thanked him and went on my Merry way!

RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!

"The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth."

Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:48 pm 
Player Coach
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User avatar

Joined: Oct 06 2006
Posts: 1261
Location: Wigan/Westhoughton
It's all random chaos. simply.






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Wigan RLFC since 1984

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 Post subject: Re: Turning the Ship Around!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Sep 20 2005
Posts: 7574
Location: Mecca of RL
Jukesays wrote:I started watching Wigan R.L about 76ish (1976 that is Not 1876 Like Rogues :wink: ) and watched the club go through a VERY VERY VERY lean patch were any win was regarded as a minor Miracle!
Although very young to appreciate the finer elements of the game I still had my Heroes (Fairbairn, Willicombe etc) and although I enjoyed the game immensely I could sense the Frustration of the Older Fans and their continual harping on about the Glory days of the 40's 50's & 60's!
As a Youngster I still took enjoyment from watching my Team Winning (Occasionally) and although dispappointed at losing would always look to next week to put it right!*** (See further down about the Youngsters of Today)
The obvious Low point being the Relegation in 80 I think there are some interesting Parallels to be drawn between what went on in those late 70's early 80's years with what is happening at the club now.
I mentioned this to another contributor to this board over the weekend and he to thought that the parallels were worth bringing up to provide a "Perspective" on where we are it under IL's Reign as Chairman and what needs to be done in what timescales to turn the club around!

If we take the relegation in 79/80 as the Pivot for our Low point retrospectively then you can see the gradual decline of the club over the proceeding 4/5 years and how it struggled to overcome the loss of it's "Star" players of 4/5 years earlier to that!
IMO this is very much like the position the club found itself in 4/5 years ago where we struggled to overcome the loss of stalwarts like Farrell/Rads/Lam/Cassidy/o'Connor/Smith/Newton etc etc
This also culminated in a relegation battle that this time we were fortunate enough to avoid either through Good luck, good management or whatever your personal Spin on that situation may be.

However

Considering that it took Wigan 4 years from relegation to Reach a "Major" Final (Comparable to today's final as we don't have JPS/Lancs Cup) and 5 years to actually win one with it then being 7 years until our first League success!
I think we often look back and forget the period between 79/80 and 85 when the club turned the Corner so to speak Not by taking One Massive step but a series of Small steps that often worked and sometime didn't!
All of the steps either forward or back added experience to the Boards future decision making until the Major Coup of the employment of Graeme Lowe that Catapulted us to the Forefront of English R.L.

Some of those steps included the Release of our star player to further the Club as a Whole.
The signing of Decent players from other clubs that although Not "Top Drawer" all of the time were better than previous and allowed progression year on year i.s Wendy Whitfield/David Stevenson/Gary Stevens/Henderson Gill etc who in time moved on to make way for the Joe Lydon's, Andy Goodway's, Andy Gregory's, Ellery Hanley's and Martin offiahs that we all too quickly remember sometimes at the expense of the "Stepping Stone" players.
The retainment of Home grown players i.e Edwards/Wane/Hampson and then onto the Dermott's/Lucas/Clarkes etc.

If you then Compare this to our situation in 2006 using it as a Pivot similar to 1980 (And coincedentally for me my son is comaprably the same age I was at this point (ish), to me it shows how we must show patience and understanding that "Rome Can't be Built in a Day" and a realisation that it will take time and draw Comfort from the Paralells of Yester year!

If we reached a Major Final in 2010 that would be comaparable to the "Great" Lindsay Regime!
If we Won a Major Final by 2011 that would be comparable to the "Great" Lindsay Regime!
If we won a League title by 2013 Guess what, same timescales as last time!

And there are some encouraging signs for me that show we are on the right track to achieve these things and you know what, maybe even quicker than last time!
Bearing in Mind IL and the current Board will have to do all of this whilst also managing the "Salary Cap" situation I think it's even more critical that we as Fans are patient and understanding that often they are "Hamstrung" by the rules that they, along with all other clubs, have to work in.

If some of our decisions over the last 12 months and next 12 months take us along a similar road to 20 years ago I for one will be more than Happy.

Since 2006 I believe Year on year we have steadily improved the Quality of our squad and with the capture and retainment of Carmont/Gleeson/Leaulia/Richards/Feka/Roberts/Riddell and the solidity of Home grown existing players like O'Loughlin/Hock/Hansen/Prescott and the emergence of the Youngsters such as Ainscough/Sam Tomkins/ J Tomkins possibly Goulding and throw in 1/2 dozen other excellent prospects I belive that IL has in 18 months and certainly by the beginning of 2010 built a far stronger Core to the Club than the Wigan club had done in the 2 years on from relegation in 1980!


The coaching situation is again a bit of a Proverbial "Hot Potato" but the Move from Fairbairn/Bamford to Murphy to Clarke/McCinness and then Lowe was a 7 year period and each one built the Next Step!
Yes it may have been possible to go straight from a Bamford to a Lowe, But Would a Lowe or Jack Gibson have taken that risk of coming to Wigan in 82 without the steps that Bamford/Murphy etc took to raise our profile and standing in the game over the previous 5/6 seasons?

Not all of the decisions made by the board were the right ones and certainly there were a number of high profile mistakes/Fallouts etc However the Club (Lindsay & The Board) never lost sight of the Longer term goal and despite Ups & Downs moved closer to their goal with small steps rather tan Giant strides!

Paralells

1980 = 2006
Fairbairn = Barrett
Bamford = Noble
Edwards = Tomkins
Recruitment of Better players from other clubs Gill/Stevenson/Stevens = Roberts/Carmont/Gleeson
The retaining of the better current players Pendlebury/Kiss/Stockley = Richards/Tommy/Feka
Looking at lost Home grown players Gregory/Lydon - Gleeson & in fact we have already retained our Better ones in Lockers/Hock/Prescott/J Tomkins etc

The interesting one is the gradual increase in supporters and their Optimism to the New Frontier after a Period in the wilderness!

Will we and the Younger Generation of the Quick Fix Brigade who have given us the support in terms of Numbers be as patient and "Loyal" to enable our current Leaders to achieve as similar as possible results as it's predecessors given the constraints they have to work with?

*** To continue the perspective of the Young from the beginning of the Thread!If you keep telling Kids that things are garbage eventually they will believe it (In reverse they keep hearing about How Good the Premier League is and that's why they are Brain Washed into watching that Garbage!) and I Belive that we msut encourage our younger element to understand that ot wasn't all Cup Final Wins and celebrations in Yester Year.
There were long periods of Down turn in fortunes and believe me they were FAR FAR FAR Worse than what has Happened at Wigan in the last 5 years!
We must encourage them to stay Loayl and Optimistic (DaveO will love that one!) and although I don't want them to do this Blindly I would want them to do it with a Patient Perspective on things not from an Immediate success is possible point of view that we may sometimes give them Harping on about the "Glory Days"!

Now we can all have a moan & we can all Pick holes in what we perceive to be mistakes made by players/coaches and Chairman but instead of all becoming fantasy Chairman and insisting on chopping and changing every 2 minutes (Although if Noble does go mid/end of season I feel 3 1/2 years will be the Right time to go fi the club feel it is the right move!) I feel we should look to Look for the Positives and be patient in the belief that by continualy making the Right "Long Term" moves our success as a club will be better in the future for it rather than insisting we go from Relegation Fodder to Champions in 1 or 2 seasons and understanding that it may take 5 or 6 with the knowledge that the Future after that will be the better for that Patient Buidl up & our foundations so much stronger!

I for one will and look forward to every single "Step" of this road whether it be forward or back!

Because I'm a Wigan Fan, and that's what I do!

Off to Bed now to Think about Our Next Game at Wakey and as Twosevenzero put it!

"Wigan Rugby League Club - It's the 1st thing I think about when I wake up in the Morning and the Last thing I think about Before I go to sleep!"

(Although that might be taking it a bit far! :wink: )




God bless you Jukesey :CLAP:

Brilliant post

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:56 pm 
Club Owner
Academy Player
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Joined: Sep 08 2003
Posts: 413
Excellent post :CLAP:

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 Post subject: Re: Turning the Ship Around!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Jan 28 2007
Posts: 3928
Jukesays wrote: snip.....


Excellent post :CLAP: :CLAP:

Rome wasn't built in a day and Wigan certainly won't just jump back to the top either.

We've tried the 'instant success' route with DW and it didn't work and now it’s time to build a good strong core for our squad made up not only of Wigan lads but also good players who equally love the club and want to make it a success

Tomkins x2, Hock, Lockers, Ainscough, Feka, Tommy, Prescott, Pryce & Riddell all have a great future with the club imo and will get better year on year and provide us with the base we need to achieve what we want to achieve.

There is still some way to go and some dead wood left to move along but IL is doing it piece by piece when circumstances let him.

All we need to do it make sure we analyse every step we take to make sure it improves us as club.






3 World Club Challenges
19 League Titles
17 Challenge Cup wins
ONE CLUB
WIGAN RLFC

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:05 pm 
International Board Member
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Joined: Mar 06 2003
Posts: 20466
Great post.






WIGAN RLFC - SL ERA

WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS 2017 & 2024

SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 1998, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2023 & 2024

CHALLENGE CUP FINAL WINNERS 2002, 2011, 2013, 2022 & 2024

LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010, 2012, 2020, 2023 & 2024

ACADEMY GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 & 2024

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:06 pm 
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You have a future in politics as a spin doctor. :wink:

Many of your links between then and now are tenuous to say the least IMO.

As to this bit:

Quote:We must encourage them to stay Loayl and Optimistic (DaveO will love that one!)


There are three generations of us who go to games. My Dad who is in his late eighties and went to games like the 1948 cup final, me and my son who is 14 (15 on Saturday) and he has been a season ticket holder several years already. He knows the score as to what played 11 won 4 means and he also knows what its like to win a final as he was at Murrayfield in 2002. He is still a regular despite the current dross so I think you give the kids far too little credit for being influenced by rants on message boards.

Dave






Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:10 pm 
International Board Member
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Joined: Mar 06 2003
Posts: 20466
All we need to do now is get rid of Bamford (Noble) and bring in a "Murphy", a coach who took us up another couple of levels.






WIGAN RLFC - SL ERA

WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS 2017 & 2024

SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 1998, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2023 & 2024

CHALLENGE CUP FINAL WINNERS 2002, 2011, 2013, 2022 & 2024

LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010, 2012, 2020, 2023 & 2024

ACADEMY GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 & 2024

WOMEN’S GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2018

BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2024

CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010 & 2012




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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Mar 19 2004
Posts: 652
Location: Living Room!
:ROCKS:


:CLAP: :CLAP: :CLAP: :CLAP:






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“The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand.”

“If you can accept losing, you can't win.”

“Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.”

Vince Lombardi

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Nov 08 2004
Posts: 29785
Location: WIGAN
It's a great battle cry :D

I'm pumped up for the future of the club now and can't wait for the Wakefield game..............................i'll be so deflated now when we limp to a heavy defeat on Sunday :lol:

In all seriousness we have a strong base on which to build and aslong as the right decisions are made over the next couple of years we'll be a major force again sooner rather then later.

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