The fact is there wasnt any other than Greg Bird and Todd carney which we tried to sign and failed for whatever reason and even had we got them they wouldnt of been able to play for us. We have to be prepared to crack a few eggs to make an omlette

As this now seems to be going down the Noble route again. I'm been having a think of who has been signed that it could be claimed Noble was part of the decision to make the signing. Off the top of my head I can think of:

Fielden
Dobson
McAvoy
Mathers
Carmont
Pryce
Roberts
Coley
Riddell
Bailey
Gleeson
Smith
Phelps
Withers

That's 14 players - have I missed any? Haven't included Barrett and Lulu because they were both recruited prior to Noble joining us. Obviously some were very short term for 2006 and others have been and gone, but that's a lot of players we've changed over three seasons.

I like how you say Wigan coach. Does the fact that he won the lot at his previous club not set the alarm bells ringing that the team at his disposal at Wigan is simply not up to the task rather than Noble suddenly becoming a poor coach?

Salford signed Smith (Jeremy), hes 1 off the top of my head who was obviously available. If we would of put the feelers out sooner im sure more would of been possible to approach. Theres a bunch of players at Wigan at the moment who have got to be the worst bit of recruitment in the history of our club, either for ability or the fact we just signed players who didnt offer any balance to our team.

I think there's a bit of fantasising going on here.

First of all, I can't believe you ask that question about 'what errors are these'. Do we see Noble and the team making anything but errors at present? I certainly don't. We've played well on two occasions this season so far - against Bradford, who we can now see are actually very poor, and against St Helens, who still managed to beat us.

As for the bit about Trent. You can't on one hand dismiss people's desire to replace him like for like, and then, on the other, airily state that we should have kept him. They guy was gone. He didn't want to stay; he reckoned he'd retire if we held him to his contract - and much of the reason for that, if certain players are to be believed, was Brian Noble, who Trent simply didn't rate.

As others have said, at present we're a bad side. We're not that bad on paper - we've got a number of good players. But this team is not the sum of its parts (by ANY stretch of the imagination), and the responsibility for that must stop with the coach.

You can continue to keep thinking deeply about it all but the fact is we did not replace Barrett leaving us with no real halfback in the entire squad and the props are terrible. No matter which way you dress it up that is 2 of the most important areas on the field that we are awful in. You simply cannot play the game being so poor in those areas and expect great things to happen no matter who the coach is.

Do you know of any team that has ever done well with no half decent halfback and such a poor front row?

He has been long enough at Wigan for his performance here to influence whether he is considered a good coach or not. His performance as coach at Wigan is pretty dire and would IMO have been even worse were it not for Barrett for two seasons.

Harking back to his Bradford days and saying that proves he is a good coach fly's in the face of the evidence that has been on show weekly since 2007.

You make it sound as if he was/is hamstrung to do anything about the current level of performance we are getting from the team. I can't seriously believe you think he can have so little influence on the group of players we have, several of which are current internationals.

Dave

But why have we got no decent half back and a poor front row? Il tell you why look at our signings in the last couple of years.

Phelps
Mathers
Pryce
Roberts
Gleeson
Tim Smith
Riddell
Carmont
Coley

7 backs 1 prop who played 2nd row for a relegated team and 1 hooker.

And saying hes a poor coach in his Wigan days means hes a poor coach flys in the face of the evidence that was on show when he was at Bradford.

You cant have it both ways Dave, he didnt win things at Bradford through luck,he had a very good set of forwards which is key to any team being sucsessful which he has not got at Wigan. Oh also add the that a halfback that kick the ball with regular accuracy and do more than keep running back on an angle stepping in and out.

Whilst we are on about coaches should we carry on and bring Millward into it? Another coach who failed at Wigan despite winning the lot at his previous club?

I am sorry but after the amount of coaches we have sacked over the past 10 years i can no longer keep blaming the coach as sacking them in the past didnt work so i dont see how it will work now.

Based on the fact you can no longer just go and sign the worlds best in every position the following players moved that Wigan could have bid for...

Half Backs: Chris Thorman, Luke Dorn, Brett Kimmorley, Rangi Chase, Jeremy Smith - they are not wonderful i'll agree but would have more of an impact than Tim Smith has come up with so far - Tomkins has it all before him but needs lots of time and a decent pack.

Props: Michael Korkidas, Gareth Carvell, Nick Fozzard, Tony Puletea, Jason Ryles, Antonio Kaufusi... IMO are all better than Coley and (the current) Fielden - also Nick Scruton, Garrett Crossman and Ray Cashmere would have been better than nobody

Don't say none were available - maybe they are not good enough in your eyes but not many won't agree they would have improved the current line up