LOL, talk about wanting a man to fail!

Agree

i believe we need change but i would never wish anyone to fail

One other way to look at it is that so long as Noble is able to keep Wigan afloat - at mid-table or slightly higher - the more difficult it is for the club to replace him. Whereas, if we drop to the bottom of the table, there'll be no option and no argument.

I don't want us to be cellar dwellers, but neither do I wish us to continue indefinitely with a coach who is looking increasingly out of his depth at the higher end of SL.

Last night was a classic illustration. We did the hard work. We matched Saints in the middle of the field for a lot of the game. But when it came to being clever and putting our chances away with smart attacking moves, we were bereft of ideas.

We also - yet again, and once again it was a fatal error - went to sleep for about twenty minutes in the second half. That shows a lack of mental toughness.

Both of these fundamental problems can be laid at the door of the head-coach. If not him, who else?

He's been one of the longest serving coaches we've had for some time, yet we've not visibly improved under him, even though on paper we're probably a better side than we were when he took over.

I don't want to see him sacked - I feel that would cause disruption and would be poor reward for a man who's not been successful rather than has actually failed. But I want to see a modern, forward-thinking coach take over when Nobby's contract expires at the end of this season.

Exactly RHJ, composure is what we lack when we get behind in games as happens so often.. Had we shown a bit more composure we would have beaten Wakefield, Hull, Castleford and probably Wakefield, but we didn't. Coaching composure and having a plan B when the chips are down is obviously not one of Noble's strong points.

This is the reason weve bought Gleeson to give us options down the right as well as the left. You say we had no idea well in all honesty niether did Leeds last week who couldnt break Saints defence down. Give Saints some credit for their heroic defence at least. Also add to that the fact we are playing a young lad in a pivotal position and our 7 is not exactly a great defence opener. On top of that we had the chances to win the game easily but couldnt finish them.

I failed to see any 20 minute lapse as you put it. Had that happened Saints would of run in try after try. What we did see was 2 individual errors cost us the game. Carmonts charging out of the line leaving Gidley half a chance that he took and Roberts failing to catch a bomb. There never was a 20 minute lapse as you put it.

Saints defended very well. But we don't have enough guile and speed in our attack close to the tryline to really test them. IMO that's been one constant through Noble's reign - even when we had Barrett. Putting the blame totally on our half-backs or individual errors misses the point - it's the team's collective failure to turn attacking field position into points that's the biggest problem.

Going back four or five years, we had a mass exodus of players, including Faz, Lam, Smith, Cassidy, O'Connor and all the young lads etc etc, went through the Dennis Betts and Ian Millward management era, broke the salary cap rules, nearly got relegated in 2006 and achieved mediocre league finishes in 2007 and 2008, had a change of ownership and brought in a host of new players and backroom staff.
How people can expect immediate gratification and success amazes me.
If you were in business and went through all those problems and upheaval, there is no way you could expect the business to work effectively, as it takes time for things and people to settle down. I'm still of the view that gradual improvement followed by consistent quality performance will do for me. A new coach now could set us back again.

None of the past problems can excuse lack of commitment/pride in the shirt, too many unforced errors, lack of fitness from certain players etc etc. I was pleased with Wigan's performance last night but on the whole we are too inconsistent and playing well in one or two games is not going to change my opinion of that. With the squad we have we should be doing better than we have been, not because we are Wigan and we have a God-given right but because we have some decent players who have proved they are capable of playing better than they usually do. I fell that 10% more commitment could have won us 50% more games at least. The only way of improving the attitude of certain players long term is by showing them their place in the team is not guaranteed, yet it is only on very few occasions Noble has done this.

I agree.

It's not just composure that we're lacking, it's a player that can make something happen. It was pretty obvious last night that we were missing a half back who could create something close to the saints line. We also didn't seem to have any decent moves that were going to ask questions of the Saints defence and for this part you have to blame the coach...