The problem isn't just the coach (solid but no superstar IMO) or the players (mainly mediocre, but so, unfortunately, are the vast bulk of players in the Sooper Dooper League these days).

The issues for me stem from a general malaise at the club (which has now infected the supporters - see the "Lethargy" thread).

Standards have dropped across the board. In all areas, whether its fitness, conditioning, match preparation (do we practice any set plays?), mental approach, tactics, coaching, scouting, team selection, leadership, commitment on the field etc etc Wigan simply aren't achieving (or even aspiring to) the highest standards.

What really made Wigan no.1 in the glory era wasn't the signing of all the best players in RL on megabucks, as some muppets would have you believe.

What really made Wigan great was the system. A Wigan system that took lesser lights like Neil Cowie from Rochdale and turned them into class players. When that system got hold of a legend like Gene Miles, considered in Oz to be a spent force, it revitalised him and got him to the point where he forged with Offiah the greatest centre-wing combination that modern RL has ever seen.

Likewise with Tuigamala, who arrived with a massive reputation in RU but despite his star status was made to remodel his bloated physique and became a superb athlete and one of the most physically powerful runners the game has ever seen.

That system was based on a pursuit of excellence, a refusal to accept second best. The vision for that came from ML, who set out to build the greatest side in the world, always talked in those terms and made that dream a reality. He brought in and encouraged the development of players who were utterly uncompromising in their own standards and what they expected of team mates, men like Edwards, Hanley, Bell and in later years Robinson and Farrell. The backroom set up was deliberately modelled on the best Australian and other world leading sports training and treatment ideas. The whole club was geared up to be the best.

What we really need is for IL to set the tone. He needs to start talking in terms of Wigan regaining its position as the greatest RL side and getting people into the club who share that vision and will work to make it happen.

We have unrivalled player resources in the local area, the most famous name in RL to attract star players and great facilities.

If he does not show the ambition needed and set the most demanding of standards and ensure they are met in all areas then we can forget ever closing the gap on Stains and Leeds, let alone regaining our position as the top side.

The fact that Stains and Leeds and SL as a whole have gone backwards in terms of quality in recent years makes Wigan's failure all the more shameful.

Great post DG and spot on imo.

The purchase of Edge Hall road shows IL is trying.

What you pies need is patience.

It takes years to build a team.

Lenaghan to me is looking to build a team around Wigan youngsters, but at present is hamstrung by legacy big money players.

Getting rid of the coach now is the worst thing you could do. It would be a panic response, when there is no need to panic.

You need to accept that at present you are a middle order team, with a number of youngsters that offer the potential in years ahead to put you in the challenge for honours.

Nice try but we are Wigan RL. Whilst being a "middle order team" may be acceptable to Stains (actually it's their natural level), it is not at Wigan.

Correct i was out with AJ. What did you want me for?

I didn't want you mate..I just thought after that performance you would be out on the ale instead of posting on here.

I agree with much of this post except to say I think Noble is responsible for the symptoms we see.

He has brought his people in the backroom staff in key positions, as usual its a mates mentality regardless of how good they can be.

Its very rare that a top coach recruits his mates to his staff.

Apologies for the essay i got a bit carried away & while i do think Chair is trolling a tiny bit, he sort of is right...

You don't have to accept it, of course it is unacceptable for Wigan to be in the position they find themselves in but you have to accept there is no over night fix.

As an outsider and not one for trolling I can see changes are definitely needed at the end of the season, or earlier if improvement doesn't come soon. Your end of season play off couple of gung ho games are incredibly exciting but its generally false hope as you have been left with too much to do.

While Deano makes some great points about the pre Super League Wigan set up, it was admittedly an almost impregnable team but that philosophy & set up pretty much destroyed the club financially & while it was great for 15 years, had it continued you might not have been here to talk about it now.

Rightly or wrongly the game has changed an awful lot since 1995 other teams have adapted to it better than Wigan & for Wigan to get back to the top & stay there they need stability right from the top down, a steady path of progression from juniors & academy to first team, the loyal support of their fans & 17 passionate warriors out on the pitch week in week out – a lot of that is in place.

The fans generally appear unhappy with the way you play which from the matches I’ve seen it can be one dimensional - but when you do get on top like Bradford this year you can play good rugby from anywhere on the pitch. It looks more like inconsistency than lack of ability - a couple of better players would make a hell of a difference, specifically a top Prop (or just Fielden back to his 2003ish form), so much is made of Leeds and Saints dominance which is always off the back of good go forward.

There is no doubt some of the Wigan kids are very bright & the future of the club is there in them, but they do need a coach who will give them experience without over exposing them but not leaving them on the fringes and stagnating.

I wouldn’t keep Noble myself & stuff keeping jobs for English coaches if no-one is good enough then go and get someone who is. Edwards, Meninga (gulp), Stuart, Bennett would all bring the stature that is required to the job – but whoever it is must be given at least 3 years to get the team how they want it.

I think 3 years is long enough to see an improvement, and all i've seen are backwards steps. I've never seen a Wigan team as inconsistent and poor in defence as this present lot. Perhaps the attitude has completely changed and if it has, i wonder if the play-off system is to blame? Perhaps Noble feels that we only have to perform towards the back end of the season. In reality, the chances are that if we don't finish in the top two of the table we won't get to the Grand Final (correct me if i'm wrong but only once has anyone won the GF from outside the top 2). It's always one game too far. You don't see the likes of Saints and Leeds take this attitude and it's about time our coach and playing staff bucked their ideas up.